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A Question for the Atheists AND Christians *EDITED to include survey!*

Hi Atheists AND Christians,

I have a question for you.  Do you have any personal morals, values, and standards that you hold to in your life?  For example, do you strive to be honest?  If so, what inspires you to hold yourself accountable to your own morals?

Please take the short survey here.

Looking forward to hearing your replies.

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While there are many moral atheists, Barna finds that belief systems have an impact on morality:

"These results show that atheists/agnostics participate in morally questionable behaviors to a much greater degree than evangelical Christians - an average of nearly five times the frequency!

“A a random sample of 1003 adults were surveyed in May, 2008 by The Barna Group for their participation in a number of negative behaviors within the previous week. The results showed that there were vast differences in the behaviors of evangelicals compared to agnostics/atheists.
Moral Behaviors of Evangelicals vs. Atheists6

Sin Evangelicals Atheists
Viewing pornography 12% for Christian 50% for Atheist
Profanity in public 16% for Christian 60% for Atheist
Gambling 2 % for Christian ?7 for Atheist
Gossiping 4 % for Christian 34% for Atheist
Sex with non-spouse 3 % for Christian ?7 for Atheist
Retaliation ? % for Christian 11for Atheist
Drunkenness 0.5% for Christian 33 for Atheist
Lying 1% for Christian ?7 for Atheist

Average 6 % for Christian 29% for Athist
These results show that atheists/agnostics participate in morally questionable behaviors to a much greater degree than evangelical Christians - an average of nearly five times the frequency!
Harris,

Barna has more credibility than you do. :-)

I understand your need to undermine them and their research. Tsk. Tsk.

How about this - just ck the #atheist hash tag and then check the #Jesus hash tag on Twitter and compare. Or, better yet - read #atheist timelines and read Christian timelines.

If YOU cannot see the difference in moral standards from your OWN read, perhaps you are have a tad amount of PREJUDICE in your point of view. :-)
To paraphrase Hitchens, the idea that without a celestial dictator we would not know right from wrong is insulting to me, you, and the rest of humanity.

Also the point which Dawkins makes so excellently runs thus: Can you name an immoral action which could only be taken by a religious person? Yes of course you could. Can you name an immoral action which could only be taken by an irreligious person? I think not.
Francis,

I am not getting your point on the Dawkins quote.

And, for the record, I did not say that people don't have morals without God. From my POV, morals are 'hard-wired' into people. However, belief systems also effect behavior, which is what I was taking to Harris about. But, I am really done with talking to Harris. He now seems to think that sharing my point of view makes me 'hateful'.

Harris, for your information, we don't call people names on this site.

Francis Thomas said:
To paraphrase Hitchens, the idea that without a celestial dictator we would not know right from wrong is insulting to me, you, and the rest of humanity.

Also the point which Dawkins makes so excellently runs thus: Can you name an immoral action which could only be taken by a religious person? Yes of course you could. Can you name an immoral action which could only be taken by an irreligious person? I think not.
The point of the Dawkins quote is to point out that secular morality is better than religious morality.
Speaking of calling people names, doesn't you holy book call atheists fools?

Juanita said:
Francis,

I am not getting your point on the Dawkins quote.

And, for the record, I did not say that people don't have morals without God. From my POV, morals are 'hard-wired' into people. However, belief systems also effect behavior, which is what I was taking to Harris about. But, I am really done with talking to Harris. He now seems to think that sharing my point of view makes me 'hateful'.

Harris, for your information, we don't call people names on this site.

Francis Thomas said:
To paraphrase Hitchens, the idea that without a celestial dictator we would not know right from wrong is insulting to me, you, and the rest of humanity.

Also the point which Dawkins makes so excellently runs thus: Can you name an immoral action which could only be taken by a religious person? Yes of course you could. Can you name an immoral action which could only be taken by an irreligious person? I think not.
Francis,
I have to comment later... leaving for a bit.

I have enjoyed bantering with you. :-)
Harris,
I am done with conversing with you.

If you continue to post to me or about me, I will report you to community governance. This forum is designed for exchanges that are agreed upon. I do not agree to any futher exchange with you.

Harris Tweed said:
Juanita said:
Francis,

I am not getting your point on the Dawkins quote.

And, for the record, I did not say that people don't have morals without God. From my POV, morals are 'hard-wired' into people. However, belief systems also effect behavior, which is what I was taking to Harris about. But, I am really done with talking to Harris. He now seems to think that sharing my point of view makes me 'hateful'.

It's not the sharing your POV that makes you hateful. It's the fact that you can't make an argument without resorting to personal attacks. Personal attacks lie at the very heart of almost everything you've had to say to me.

Harris, for your information, we don't call people names on this site.

I'll mention that to the lady that called me profoundly ignorant. LOL!
Francis Thomas said:
The point of the Dawkins quote is to point out that secular morality is better than religious morality.
Speaking of calling people names, doesn't you holy book call atheists fools?



Actually, to be technical, God calls people fools who don't believe in Him.

"The fool has said in his heart there is no God."

We often use the word fool to deride people: Def.: To speak of or treat with contemptuous mirth. See Synonyms at ridicule.


Def. of fool that would be in the factual context: One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.
If God does exist, it would be consistant from God's point of view to consider those who don't believe He exists to be deficient in judgement, sense or understanding.
Jesus said, "whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire" (Matthew 5:22).

So doesn’t this mean that God is in danger of hell-fire?

Juanita said:

Actually, to be technical, God calls people fools who don't believe in Him.

"The fool has said in his heart there is no God."

We often use the word fool to deride people: Def.: To speak of or treat with contemptuous mirth. See Synonyms at ridicule.


Def. of fool that would be in the factual context: One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.
If God does exist, it would be consistant from God's point of view to consider those who don't believe He exists to be deficient in judgement, sense or understanding.
Hmmm...

I could give you one of two answers.

This one would be more satisfying:
Danger = possiblitiy of something bad happening. Calling people fools puts us in danger that we could be wrong & held accountable.

This one would be less satisfying, so don't 'crunch' at me. ;-)
The bible has a spiritual dimension to it, unless a person is a Christian, you cannot fully comprehend this dimension.


Francis Thomas said:
Jesus said, "whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire" (Matthew 5:22).

So doesn’t this mean that God is in danger of hell-fire?

Juanita said:

Actually, to be technical, God calls people fools who don't believe in Him.

"The fool has said in his heart there is no God."

We often use the word fool to deride people: Def.: To speak of or treat with contemptuous mirth. See Synonyms at ridicule.


Def. of fool that would be in the factual context: One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.
If God does exist, it would be consistant from God's point of view to consider those who don't believe He exists to be deficient in judgement, sense or understanding.
So is God in the wrong for calling people fools? Who would hold God accountable?

Spiritual dimension? Really? I was expecting better apologetics than that! :P

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21)

Juanita said:
Hmmm...

I could give you one of two answers.

This one would be more satisfying:
Danger = possiblitiy of something bad happening. Calling people fools puts us in danger that we could be wrong & held accountable.

This one would be less satisfying, so don't 'crunch' at me. ;-)
The bible has a spiritual dimension to it, unless a person is a Christian, you cannot fully comprehend this dimension.
Surely, anyone who can believe in a possible singularity in some distant previous universal state, could -with a bit of a stretch perhaps- believe in a singularity of a being in the current state.


You quote quite a lot of scripture for someone who is an 'outsider.'



Francis Thomas said:
So is God in the wrong for calling people fools? Who would hold God accountable?

Spiritual dimension? Really? I was expecting better apologetics than that! :P

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21)

Juanita said:
Hmmm...

I could give you one of two answers.

This one would be more satisfying:
Danger = possiblitiy of something bad happening. Calling people fools puts us in danger that we could be wrong & held accountable.

This one would be less satisfying, so don't 'crunch' at me. ;-)
The bible has a spiritual dimension to it, unless a person is a Christian, you cannot fully comprehend this dimension.

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