America-Christian Nation

[Sierra Nichole]

Im wondering how many ppl still agree with this statement?

I personally dont like hearing it because if America is known for being a "Christian" Nation then what kind of message are we sending to the world? That its ok to be gay, have premarital sex, engage in witchcraft, have abortions, etc.

These are things are country believes in yet as Christians we try to keep saying that we are a Christian Nation.

We may have been founded on Christian principles but by no means do we act as a Christian Nation.

Am I the only one who has a problem with that?

[Steve Belttari]

I think the USA was founded as a Christian nation during the American Revolutionary War(1775-1783). It was only after the godless US Constitution(1789) became the "law of the land", that the United States began to drift away from its Christian orgins. Don't get me wrong, throughout its history, the USA has been blessed by the Gospel, but it is not because of the separation of Church and state, as some would have us to believe, but because of God. So I think that the United States will be broken down into at least 2 nations, one that identifies with its true orgins, and the other who continues in its dangerous delusion of a government and people without God.

[Tyler Hausen]

Our nation was actually founded on secular ideals, during the revolutionary war and during the construction of the constitution; all of our founders were involved in both. We are suppose to be a secular nation in which all beliefs are equal. You may believe in what ever you want so long as you do not break any laws.

[Steve Belttari]

When you say, "break any laws", are you talking about God's law, or man made political oriented laws? In the future, under the secular-socialist regime, it may be the law to hand over all your income to the socialist bureaucracy, so they may direct your life according to their "laws", that just happen not to include God and are for their benefit, Jesus referred to them as being benefactors. Only 8 men who signed the Declaration of Independence also signed off on the U.S. Constitution. Even if that were not the case, don't forget all the Christian common folk who actually did the fighting for the sake of Christian liberty.

Tyler Hausen said:

Our nation was actually founded on secular ideals, during the revolutionary war and during the construction of the constitution; all of our founders were involved in both. We are suppose to be a secular nation in which all beliefs are equal. You may believe in what ever you want so long as you do not break any laws.

[Tyler Hausen]

I think that kind of future law system will be unlikely and hopefully that never happens, and even then I highly doubt a secular society would even come to that. I'm all for a lawless/moneyless system that is directed by a few rudimentary laws, such as no killing etc... Now I'm sure you're saying how will a lawless/moneyless system work? That society will be heavily dependent on technology to make up for work whatever humans aren't doing, and without money, almost all crime will disappear, because money causes a huge portion of criminal acts. But that society won't work until technology is vastly better, so maybe in 50 years or so.

The constitution was created under secular ideals by men who wanted a secular nation. A nation in which any and all beliefs have the right to exist and no one belief is above other beliefs. No religious organization is to be associated with any government, because the founding fathers have seen what a religious organization can do when associated with government. History shows that when religious organizations are in control of government, typically the nation's economy does poorly and laws are unjust, and the people are living in filth and disease. There's a reason those times were called the Dark Ages.

And what does it matter if Christians fought the war? That's almost as relevant as all men fighting were wearing hats. The men fighting the war weren't fighting for a Christian cause anyhow, they were fighting for liberation from the tyrannical Kingdom of Great Britain.

Steve Belttari said:

When you say, "break any laws", are you talking about God's law, or man made political oriented laws? In the future, under the secular-socialist regime, it may be the law to hand over all your income to the socialist bureaucracy, so they may direct your life according to their "laws", that just happen not to include God and are for their benefit, Jesus referred to them as being benefactors. Only 8 men who signed the Declaration of Independence also signed off on the U.S. Constitution. Even if that were not the case, don't forget all the Christian common folk who actually did the fighting for the sake of Christian liberty.
Tyler Hausen said:

Our nation was actually founded on secular ideals, during the revolutionary war and during the construction of the constitution; all of our founders were involved in both. We are suppose to be a secular nation in which all beliefs are equal. You may believe in what ever you want so long as you do not break any laws.

[Steve Belttari]

I would say that 90% of Americans were conservative Antifederalists when the U.S. Constitution became the law of the land. So what you have is a classic example of the more determined radical(Federalists) minority getting their way. As is usually the case with the more determined radical minority, they also bended the rules just a little bit to get their way. Another dynamic that was at work was that the Federalist consolidators were rich guys. So instead of rich guys with a direct mandate from Heaven(divine right of kings) to rule us peons, now we have rich guys who are atheists who are ruling us peons by their own enlightened reason. I don't think that either of the above is a good option, but I do think that Christian liberty would have been better served under the more decentralized Articles of Confederation. As far as what you said about the motives of the American revolutionists being a non factor, well, I think that you have a concept of modern warfare in mind, where the omnipotent state drafts or recruits(economic draft) young men who understand nothing about what they are fighting for(other then a paycheck). During the American Revolutionary War, a third of the people in America were pro British, a third were neutral, and a third were American revolutionaries. It is true that the immediate goal of the American revolutionaries was to free themselves from British tyranny, but as revolutionaries I do see them as having a far reaching goal of universal liberty, that came from their Christian worldview.

Tyler Hausen said:

I think that kind of future law system will be unlikely and hopefully that never happens, and even then I highly doubt a secular society would even come to that. I'm all for a lawless/moneyless system that is directed by a few rudimentary laws, such as no killing etc... Now I'm sure you're saying how will a lawless/moneyless system work? That society will be heavily dependent on technology to make up for work whatever humans aren't doing, and without money, almost all crime will disappear, because money causes a huge portion of criminal acts. But that society won't work until technology is vastly better, so maybe in 50 years or so.

The constitution was created under secular ideals by men who wanted a secular nation. A nation in which any and all beliefs have the right to exist and no one belief is above other beliefs. No religious organization is to be associated with any government, because the founding fathers have seen what a religious organization can do when associated with government. History shows that when religious organizations are in control of government, typically the nation's economy does poorly and laws are unjust, and the people are living in filth and disease. There's a reason those times were called the Dark Ages.

And what does it matter if Christians fought the war? That's almost as relevant as all men fighting were wearing hats. The men fighting the war weren't fighting for a Christian cause anyhow, they were fighting for liberation from the tyrannical Kingdom of Great Britain.

Steve Belttari said:

When you say, "break any laws", are you talking about God's law, or man made political oriented laws? In the future, under the secular-socialist regime, it may be the law to hand over all your income to the socialist bureaucracy, so they may direct your life according to their "laws", that just happen not to include God and are for their benefit, Jesus referred to them as being benefactors. Only 8 men who signed the Declaration of Independence also signed off on the U.S. Constitution. Even if that were not the case, don't forget all the Christian common folk who actually did the fighting for the sake of Christian liberty.
Tyler Hausen said:

Our nation was actually founded on secular ideals, during the revolutionary war and during the construction of the constitution; all of our founders were involved in both. We are suppose to be a secular nation in which all beliefs are equal. You may believe in what ever you want so long as you do not break any laws.

[James]

I don't like it because it is not true. Our Nation was founder on secular ideas. People came here to get away from being controlled by religion.Why would they want to to the same thing here?

You think being gay or having premarital sex, belief in witchcraft,having abortions as being the biggest problems we in the United States are showing the world.

How about the United States being only 5% of world population but consume 24% of the world's energy.

Americans eat 815 billion calories of food each day - that's roughly 200 billion more than needed - enough to feed 80 million people.

Americans throw out 200,000 tons of edible food daily.

The average American generates 52 tons of garbage by age 75.

The average individual daily consumption of water is 159 gallons, while more than half the world's population lives on 25 gallons.

What the world see is a powerful country taken what ever we want using what ever means we have to get what we want. The world see us as a mean bully.

[Steve Belttari]

It is true that people came to America to escape religious persecution, but I don't think that they came here to be atheists. The logical consequence of an atheist worldview would be overconsumption and immorality.

Steve

James said:

I don't like it because it is not true. Our Nation was founder on secular ideas. People came here to get away from being controlled by religion.Why would they want to to the same thing here?

You think being gay or having premarital sex, belief in witchcraft,having abortions as being the biggest problems we in the United States are showing the world.

How about the United States being only 5% of world population but consume 24% of the world's energy.

Americans eat 815 billion calories of food each day - that's roughly 200 billion more than needed - enough to feed 80 million people.

Americans throw out 200,000 tons of edible food daily.

The average American generates 52 tons of garbage by age 75.

The average individual daily consumption of water is 159 gallons, while more than half the world's population lives on 25 gallons.

What the world see is a powerful country taken what ever we want using what ever means we have to get what we want. The world see us as a mean bully.

[James]

Never said people came hear to be atheist. Our Founding Fathers saw what was going on in the old world and had the smarts to make sure religion stayed out of government here in the new world. One of the founding fathers could have been an atheist but there were more then a few of them were deists.

Why do Free atheist countries called" organic atheism" countries rank far higher in indicators of societal health as life expectancy, adult literacy, per-capita income, educational attainment, and so on. then highly religious countries?

Steve Belttari said:

It is true that people came to America to escape religious persecution, but I don't think that they came here to be atheists. The logical consequence of an atheist worldview would be overconsumption and immorality.

Steve

James said:

I don't like it because it is not true. Our Nation was founder on secular ideas. People came here to get away from being controlled by religion.Why would they want to to the same thing here?

You think being gay or having premarital sex, belief in witchcraft,having abortions as being the biggest problems we in the United States are showing the world.

How about the United States being only 5% of world population but consume 24% of the world's energy.

Americans eat 815 billion calories of food each day - that's roughly 200 billion more than needed - enough to feed 80 million people.

Americans throw out 200,000 tons of edible food daily.

The average American generates 52 tons of garbage by age 75.

The average individual daily consumption of water is 159 gallons, while more than half the world's population lives on 25 gallons.

What the world see is a powerful country taken what ever we want using what ever means we have to get what we want. The world see us as a mean bully.

[Steve Belttari]

I really don't see the United States as being founded on "secular ideas" as you say. The Constitution conspirators had a grand vision of America as a mercantilist commercial empire, this is where the immorality, being a bully and overconsumption comes from. At the time of the American Revolutionary War, the United States was a nation of priests and kings-this is why we won a war against the most powerful military of the world.

James said:

Never said people came hear to be atheist. Our Founding Fathers saw what was going on in the old world and had the smarts to make sure religion stayed out of government here in the new world. One of the founding fathers could have been an atheist but there were more then a few of them were deists.

Why do Free atheist countries called" organic atheism" countries rank far higher in indicators of societal health as life expectancy, adult literacy, per-capita income, educational attainment, and so on. then highly religious countries?

Steve Belttari said:

It is true that people came to America to escape religious persecution, but I don't think that they came here to be atheists. The logical consequence of an atheist worldview would be overconsumption and immorality.

Steve

James said:

I don't like it because it is not true. Our Nation was founder on secular ideas. People came here to get away from being controlled by religion.Why would they want to to the same thing here?

You think being gay or having premarital sex, belief in witchcraft,having abortions as being the biggest problems we in the United States are showing the world.

How about the United States being only 5% of world population but consume 24% of the world's energy.

Americans eat 815 billion calories of food each day - that's roughly 200 billion more than needed - enough to feed 80 million people.

Americans throw out 200,000 tons of edible food daily.

The average American generates 52 tons of garbage by age 75.

The average individual daily consumption of water is 159 gallons, while more than half the world's population lives on 25 gallons.

What the world see is a powerful country taken what ever we want using what ever means we have to get what we want. The world see us as a mean bully.

[James]

LOL really, Only reason we won was because the French along with Spain and the Netherlands as allies. It was the French naval victory in the Chesapeake leading to the surrender of a British army at Yorktown in 1781. The Treaty of Paris in 1783 ended the war and recognized the sovereignty of the United States.

Hers a little something about life in early America.
http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid...
Steve Belttari said:

I really don't see the United States as being founded on "secular ideas" as you say. The Constitution conspirators had a grand vision of America as a mercantilist commercial empire, this is where the immorality, being a bully and overconsumption comes from. At the time of the American Revolutionary War, the United States was a nation of priests and kings-this is why we won a war against the most powerful military of the world.

James said:

Never said people came hear to be atheist. Our Founding Fathers saw what was going on in the old world and had the smarts to make sure religion stayed out of government here in the new world. One of the founding fathers could have been an atheist but there were more then a few of them were deists.

Why do Free atheist countries called" organic atheism" countries rank far higher in indicators of societal health as life expectancy, adult literacy, per-capita income, educational attainment, and so on. then highly religious countries?

Steve Belttari said:

It is true that people came to America to escape religious persecution, but I don't think that they came here to be atheists. The logical consequence of an atheist worldview would be overconsumption and immorality.

Steve

James said:

I don't like it because it is not true. Our Nation was founder on secular ideas. People came here to get away from being controlled by religion.Why would they want to to the same thing here?

You think being gay or having premarital sex, belief in witchcraft,having abortions as being the biggest problems we in the United States are showing the world.

How about the United States being only 5% of world population but consume 24% of the world's energy.

Americans eat 815 billion calories of food each day - that's roughly 200 billion more than needed - enough to feed 80 million people.

Americans throw out 200,000 tons of edible food daily.

The average American generates 52 tons of garbage by age 75.

The average individual daily consumption of water is 159 gallons, while more than half the world's population lives on 25 gallons.

What the world see is a powerful country taken what ever we want using what ever means we have to get what we want. The world see us as a mean bully.

[Steve Belttari]

Good point James, it is good to see the whole picture. Another dynamic at work was the British generals were less than enthusiastic about prosecuting a war against fellow Englishmen, which affected their performance in the war. Maybe France, Spain and the Netherlands were our allies because of answers to prayer? The Treaty of Paris recognized the sovereignty of the United States, but only as being granted by the king of England. Our sovereignty is much more than a grant from a king. Many of the Constitution conspirators didn't think so, and entangled us politically-economically to the old world.

[Steve Belttari]

Since you mentioned the Treaty of Paris, I thought that this was a good time to bring up why the U.S. Constitution is a treasonous document, and why the government it created needs to be abolished and replaced with a new form of government, that has the consent of the governed. Article VI clause 2 says:

"This constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof, and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding."

Let me interpret, anything in this constitution(10th amendment) or the laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding(nullification). So if the people of a state seek redress of grievences through their local or state governments, a treaty takes precedence over our own laws. This is treason, plain and simple. So if someone wants to use the U.S. Constitution to marginalize Christianity, they are also being treasonous.