Creating a Learning Network for Kingdom Builders!

I am on vacation in the Dominican Republic. This time has given me much opportunity for prayer and reflection. Plus, some time for excellent reading. This is what God is saying to my heart:

If we would see God's kingdom advance, we must never be satisfied with the status quo. We must not feel like we have arrived.

If we arrive at satisfaction, we will not move into all that God has for us.

Here is the challenge to all of us… Look around: the walls are broken down and the gates are destroyed by fire. The gates that hold back wickedness are crumbling. CAN YOU SEE IT? Does it hurt your heart?
The body of Christ is losing members and influence. As individual believers, as churches and as Christian leaders, we should be helping to solve the issues emerging around us, yet we struggle to survive as churches.

I am fully convinced that God has given us everything pertaining to life and godliness. I am fully convinced that He has a better way. And, I am fully convinced that part of His plan is to join believers to meet the needs of our community. To join with other believers in our concern for and impact to our country. As American citizens, this is part of our responsibility.

Are you with me on this?

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I am with has been a topic of discussion for several months,now with brothers and sisters in Christ. I heard an interesting insight and it goes along with scripture and that is this: God has always through out history purified His church (like the refiner does) by allowing the chaos to become seems it is no different now and we (His people) need to heed Him and stick to our guns while the weeds and or chaff get shaken down...
You are right on target. I had a sleepless night over this very issue. Yesterday, while doing ministry work, I wound up in a discussion board type web site. Many of the people posting messages are pastors attending a conference. I have never read "idle chatter" to this extent previously. The men of God are routinely using words that would cause any of our grandkids to be tasting soap. No topic seems off limits. Everyone is tired and complaining, and many grumble about missing days off. Sports are more important to them than souls. Money, not ministry is the focus. Inflated numbers are more important than inflated spirits that Jesus has touched. The contest seems to be who can have the loudest band and make their pulpit look most like a nightclub. Sermons have been replaced by "talks." The Gospel is confrontational and if we, the church, try so hard to blend in with the world, how will people be convicted of sin, repent, and come to Christ?

I tossed and turned all night, and was up for hours, asking, "God is this what Your precious church has become?" Has holiness gone by the wayside? Do You now allow open sin in the lives of servants you have called out? Can we witness to a lost world with cesspool talk? How will they ever be won to Christ if modernism and sin is the norm."

Your message answered by question. I know that I must stay on track, regardless of what men of God all around are allowing to happen. Times may change, but God's standards do not. God bless you for your help.
2 Chronicles 20:15 (New International Version)

15 He said: "Listen, King Jehoshaphat and all who live in Judah and Jerusalem! This is what the LORD says to you: 'Do not be afraid or discouraged because of this vast army. For the battle is not yours, but God's.

We are entering troubled times. We are entering a time when our courage and faith will be sorely tested.
We must rest on God, and let his truth be seen even by our enemies....and believe me, the enemy camp is growing and surrounding us quickly.
Are you using your personal observation or some other stats? Christianity has the largest set of believers in both the US and the world. In my community we are experiencing growth through outreach. That aside, sure, I am also convinced that having believers join together in community is a good thing. Remember, too, that most of Jesus' work was with hookers, thieves, drunks and outcasts. So let's not be too pristine with ourselves and forget that these people need us the most.
The McLeans said:
Remember, too, that most of Jesus' work was with hookers, thieves, drunks and outcasts. So let's not be too pristine with ourselves and forget that these people need us the most.

Let's not confuse pristine with holiness. Yes indeed, Jesus worked with sinners, but He never sinned. He is our example that we can work with people without doing what they do. If a pastor lowers himself to the level of the world for the sake of reaching them, who will be their example after they are redeemed and God starts to clean them up?
I'm with you on this. After teaching inner city public schools for 30 years, I didn't realize until last evening how much God gave me "King Solomon responses" through out my career dealing with unsaved kids, parents, fellow teachers, and administrators. It was the only way they could understand truth from error. I therefore fully appreciate your challenging questions! Because hell is eternal, we need to get in people's faces!!!

PASTORS, I want you to know what a POWERFUL program Kingdom has put together to address the spiritual devastations you read in the above posts. (No, it's NOT just another insipid collection of men's techniques, but it emulates the heart of Jesus for receiving strangers, fatherless, widows, and sinners.)

Do you have a church of warriors for God with sharp spiritual discernment, or the blind socially leading the blind?
Do you have a church of fully engaged church participators, or couch potato spectators?
Do you propagate church ministries, or church miseries?
Do you have a church that is sharper and more active than your local Rotary, Kwanis, etc., or are your membership expectations lower than these secular clubs?
Want a church that adopts the world's weary with open arms, instead of contemplating its navel?

I'M ISSUING A CHALLENGE: How willing are you to have your pastoral paradigms turned upside down and your church system shaken to its very roots? Anyone out there not afraid to step out of your comfort zone?

"My people perish for lack of vision and lack of definitive leadership!" Kingdom's powerful program to change all this is the Visitor Retention Program! Pastors are reporting, because of the VRP, (1) their churches are displaying Jesus' compassion for hospitality of strangers, (2) members are becoming evangelistic, (3) members are going out and inviting the unchurched and unsaved to come, (4) non-involved members are becoming actively engaged, (5) visitors are staying and asking for membership, (6) people are saying it's great to be in a church that puts people first instead of the organization, and (7) communities are beginning to sit up and take notice of spiritual quality happening in church.

Intrigued? Want to know more? Curious enough to call? DON'T CALL unless you fully intend to act! (ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS) 800-788-1122.
Dave Knauss
yes...and i go next door to the nation where you are roght is much different althought the same island..

america is crumbling right now under a great deception ...we are blowing in the wind....- i can see it very clearly. The antichrist spirit is invading this land and only th Holy Spirit can restrain BUT He cannot work without a body and a voice. I would hop that gods people wuld SPEAK UP - SPEAK ...His Word....His will...and His Righteousness

A challnge to the church-

are yOu SALT and LIGHT? or are you 'being trampled under foot"

if the church is being trampled under foot its because we are salt thats lost its savor....

only Jesus - Gods word - not some watered down worldly version or politically correct version ----which is NOT a gospel - but the unadulterated staright talking word as jesu the apstles and prophets have spoken and written....

not 'todays' apostles and prophets (israel had fakes too - they had the real too) ... most we know God did not send because they contradict whats written.....because they have left simplicity ad have turned t great sweling words...lofty sayings...professionalism.....they have turned to be comedians....sorry - thats another Jesus...another spirit...another Gospel.... not that there is any other..

speak up and support those who do...with prayer, time, talent and funds....we may not all be caled to preach or teach in front of crowds - but we are all empowered to be His the Holy Spirit.....who brings to repentance and faith in Jesus

how can there be repentance is no one talks about it
How can there be faith in the work of jesus in the cross and resurection if no one speaks about it

No - saving faith must be transfered and imparted to the hearer through the spoken Truth and by the power working of the Holy Spirit ----

For Jesus' sake and in light of the stand He made for you - open your hearts and listen and then do what He says your part is....make a stand for Him

He said...if you would announce Him before men and not be ashamed He would announce you before His Father....

yes, we have been comforatble in our pews...we persecute those who preach as the apostles and prophets and as jesus and John the Baptists preached.....when in fact we should be materialy, financially and psiritually supporting them...

Consider before the lrd what I say....we have sat and america - the nation we are responsible is perishing having rejected the Almighty....we go to church to be enetertained and to be editorial comedy or english structure critics - our itchy ears have heaped t ourselves our own teachers brining in seducing spirits and the teachings of demons .... where did Jesus say His house will b called a hospital??? - we bring in the practicers of every kid f evil - when in fact the apostles taught us to put them out of the church!!!!! if they practice sin and refuse to repent - we are to PUT THEM OUT... even a person being divisive is to be put out after the first and second warning....

revelations says there are two churches....which one are you?? you may say 'wheres your love brother?? - i say its in TELLING THE TRUTH that you might endure to the end faithful to the Lord and be saved....he who endures to the end will be saved!!!!....many wil say in that dya Lord - Lord and I will say GET AWAY I do not KNOW you - you who practice awlessnes 9iniquity - rebellion)

Lord means master and ruler - is He your you obey what He tells you to do?? do you submit to his leading.?... do you YIELD to the Hoy Spirit??

SYSTEMATICALLY the the WORD - THE SPIRIT AD THE TRUTH (explained in the bible) have bee attacked and pushed from open view in america...

the antiChrist spirit is manifesting more in the ast 90-100 days than I have seen in my life.....part of the reason is the WORSHIP of money.....thats called mammon - we cannot serve two masters - one...or the other....

money and the pursuit became a God the search for the 'american dream' became perverted becaus god and service to him and living to do what he wants was not the central rason for our lives -we do not expect that of th e word - but it is demanded to name the name of Christ.....we must depart iniquity (rebellion, disobedience, lawlessness) - so TODAY - finaciay we are eating the fruit of the harvest we planted in those days and years - but as obedient christians this is not our portion - Christs was crucufied to deliver us from lack, want and poverty as the bloved apostle paul - through God the hoy Spirit wrote us...

no, we decided we wanted to be lovers f the world - but as james said through the Holy Spirit - adulterers and adultress' - do you not know to love the world is to MAKE YOURSELF and enemy of God....and the word lve hre is th word for frendship - or friendly....we are not to buddy up to the word word here is 'kosmos - the orderly arrangemnet...that on the devil manipulates - that which is contrary to the word....

we have let the world poke out our eyes like samson - but we can still LISTEN and be healed and work with jesus to bring down in finality the house of satan - and so thats the time we live time of the RVELATION of Jesus as Judge - and he is Judgeing from heaven.....

it amzes me today how may welll meaning but decieved leaders calling themselves ..pastors, eveangelist, teachers, prophets and apostle ...speak againt repentance and judgement and proclaim a Jesus thats has nothing to do with either f these th TRUTHS....

but did you know the APOSTLES of the New testament preached judgement and Jesus as Judge??? and in the REVELATION who is OPEING UP AND RELEASING THE JUDGeMENTS?? AND WHO IS SPEAKING TO TH CHURCHES AND TELLING THEM WHATS RIGHT AND WHATS WRONG AND TELLING THEM TO REPENT - CHANGE THERE WAYS AND HE WILL keepp them from the hour of tribuation that has come upon the whole earth...??? SORRY WRONG CAPS.... i am a bad hunt and peck typist...

it is not Jesus Gospel leaving our repentance - it is a sdcution and decpetion perpetrated by the devil through mankind, male and female...



yes, i am with you....
Some Refereneces to my other comments - just so you know I am not dreaming them out of the clouds like so many today - beware of those types..flee not listen to them - in that way keep yourselves in the love and protection of God...

Matthew 5:13-17

13 Believers Are Salt and Light (Mark 9:50; Luke 14:34,35) "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.

14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.

15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

17 Christ Fulfills the Law "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

1 Timothy 4:1
4:1 The Great Apostasy Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

2 Timothy 3:13-17

13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,

15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Corinthians 11:3-4

3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted — you may well put up with it!

Galatians 1:8-10

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.

2 Timothy 3:2

2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money,

2 Timothy 3:4-5
lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

Luke 16:14-15

14 The Law, the Prophets, and the Kingdom Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him.

15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.

James 4:4

4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

James 4:1-10
4:1 Pride Promotes Strife Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members?

2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask.

3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain,"The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"?

6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."

7 Humility Cures Worldliness Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.

10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.
Through God's promises, God has given us everything pertaining to life and godliness. We are to purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God(2 Cor 7 vs 1). Have true followers of God ever not been accused of being unpatriotic. I'm interested in having an impact on my country, by aligning myself with God of course. The United States of America is under God's judgment no doubt. What will be the nature of this judgment? Will fire and brimstone come down from heaven, or will God just take his hands off and let people destroy themselves. Even among people that I consider to be spiritual minded , there does seem to be this idea that called has called us Christians in America to be martyrs. We are to lay down our arms and allow secular humanists(atheists) to have our way with us. The Gospel should then go underground, like we are in a third world country. I don't agree with this approach of course, there is no reason that the Gospel cannot stay above ground in America. We might have to separate ourselves from unbelievers and form our own government to accomplish this. At this time, I'm not necessarily saying that this is going to be the case, but it does seem that way to me. So in answer to your question, I think that I am with you, unless you are in the American Christian martyr camp, then I am still with you, only with a different approach.

Several thoughts here. Juanita have to admit to a cetain amount of jealousy regarding your vacation although I realize it may be ministry work and not just fun and games. My current situation doesn't allow me to go to such distant places. I think your calling is so much more community and ministry oriented than mine that I sometimes have difficulty connecting with where you are going. In the sense that the church needs to be the church and do what it says it does I am with you. On the level where I function I can and do pray for others to truly follow God. I can make an effort to minister or point things out when I see a problem. Have to be careful because I can be a might to direct. Sometimes I opt to shut up and pray rather than step out and do more damage than good. I can also pray for things I see in my Pastors. I can continue to pray even when they seem not to understand if/when I go to them about something. If it is something that needs to be worked in them, the Lord will do it. If I am the one who needs understanding, He will eventually give it to me.
Robert, maybe I am just a clueless lay person here, but if a Pastor is doing what the Lord is calling Him to do does it even matter how big his church or his band gets? I have to question if those leaders are truely making an effort to follow the Lord. You're right it is frightening. I would rather know that regardless of the size, music style, or whatever the people and the pastor are honestly seeking and following the Lord. Even in one small body I see many expressions of that.
Kingdom Christians live with a holy dissatisfaction until earth looks like heaven...
"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
It's a drivenness to see the syncronization of heaven and earth!

Eddie Smith
I am with you....I do think that we have gotten away from the basics, and in that missed out on simply loving, repenting, and letting God be God. Although I am not fully satisfied with average "church -life". I look at many churches today, and see alot of Eeyores...when the church should be full of of Tiggers(think of Winnie The Pooh). I want to see the victorious church! But I also want to see false teaching, sin, and un-holiness dealt with and not accepted as if it is politically correct.

What can be done....ALOT!

First...get out of our church bubbles and start loving on a hurting and dying world...start meeting their needs and showing them Christ Jesus.
Second...become relevant to society AS Christians. What I mean by that is that we actually look, sound, and act like Jesus. That takes some commitment and surrender on our parts, and means we actually start working on "BECOMING" more like Him. How do we do that? Like I just taught my Sunday school class of teens last Sunday. We become more like Him, by beholding reading His word which is a picture of what we should look admiring and appreciating His creation, and those He created...and by having active dialogues with Him.
Third...We need to start making our churches accessible to all walks of life, and give believers and non-believers a place to get active in His kingdom. Even if that means we invite a new believer to be in charge of sharpening the pencils every week. Okay...something like that. HAHA!
Fourth and this is the biggee......we need to know our place and destiny in Christ and walk it out with passion!

Fifth-ly (is that a word-haha) I am going to work on me...

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