Christians Should Leave Religion Behind

[Dave Knauss]

I began my life in a Christian home and in a Christian church. We had daily family devotions and were always at church every time the doors were open. So, like a well-indoctrinated devotee, I went to the altar at age 12 and gave my life to the Lord. But, did I? For 10 years, until age 22, the Lord allowed me to wander in dry places. I had no assurance of being saved. I didn't know what it was like to be in God's Will. I knew nothing of feeling God's love. Since I didn't feel it, neither did I receive it or give it. I was miserable, still a slave to sin, and differed nothing from an unsaved person (Galatians 4:1). At age 22, God caused me to live a small portion of 2 Kings 19. He caused similar events concerning Hezekiah and Sennacherib to happen between my public school supervisor and myself. In this process, He exposed the rebellion still in my heart. As I was in prayer over a letter that my supervisor wrote to begin dismissal proceedings against me, the Holy Spirit zapped me hard with verse 22. He told me loud and clear that in going against my supervisor, I was going against God as well, who placed my supervisor over me. After repenting, God miraculously intervened, preserved my job, and taught me that all His Word can be lived literally as well as spiritually. He taught me that living His Word is the same as living His personality (2 Peter 1:4) and having a living relationship with Him. Through relationship instead of religion, He created an award-winning person and teacher out of me, to love my wife, my children, my students, my neighbors, and my church. I've learned that being a Christian is growing in levels of relationship with God that deepen, broaden, and heighten all at the same time. I want to be like Abraham--God called him His friend. If the woman with the issue of blood needed only to touch the hem of His garment for virtue to flow into her, I position myself on His lap every night and wrap myself in His garments for His virtue to flow through me all night long. This same way, He is with me all day long as well. Salvation is beginning a relationship. Sanctification is deepening the relationship. I gave up religion to have an intimate relationship with God.

[Ahin]

Dave, thanks for sharing your life story. I agree with you that we need to leave our 'religion' behind if we are to experience a personal, intimate relationship with God.
You see the Creator of the Universe, the Almighty, All Knowing, All Powerful, All Present God is genuinely interested in our lives and he craves for a intimate personal relationship with us.
We are the ones who create the rules, the boundaries, the box that we put God in.

Lately it has been a wonderful experience for me to discover those boxes, rules and regulations that I have put on God and slowly giving those up and asking God to remove them and fill the void with a more intimate, personal relationship with Him.

Keep up the good work fo sharing your 'life story'.

Ahin

[Katie]

Hi Dave!

Thank you for sharing this truth! I probably think about this every day. I am so very grateful that God came to me and rescued me out of religion and into a personal, living relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. This came about for me after I knelt down in a church as a totally lost person and prayed from my heart, "Jesus, if there is anything real about you, I wish you would come down off of that cross and show me." I am amazed how He answered that desperate, (although not too humble), cry. He used people, situations, and the Bible to reveal Himself to me. Now I have been walking with Jesus almost 28 years and it is the treasure of my life. I am so grateful to know Him. I am so thankful to have His forgiveness. I feel like I am discovering why He made me. But every day I pray for Him to keep me from religion. I see this as something that is so easy to fall into as a Christian. It is easy to just do the routine and lose the life. I never want to fall into that trap. May the Lord help us all! And, Brothers and Sisters, let's keep it real!

[Val]

In response to all three of you, thank you for sharing your stories. I am lost...trying to find the right path to an intimate relationship with God. I pray...more now than ever...but I don't know if I even pray right. I read the prayers that some post on here, and I can't even compare to what they say. I try to live a clean life, but I know I'm not perfect. I strongly believe in God and have witnessed his mercy when calling different members of my family home. But I'm searching for that burst inside telling me that He is hearing me. I don't go to church...I did when I was growing up but was never encouraged to continue so I transformed into a teenager and went on with my young life. I just lived, day to day. But I do remember during my teenage years that I would thank God for bringing me safely through another day at the end of my day. I would try to talk to Him but most times I'd fall asleep in mid-prayer. Now, more than ever, I need Him in my life and I pray He will help me to find the road to Salvation. Maybe He has by steering me here among Christians such as yourself. I could use any prayers anyone wants to offer, as I'm trying to find some direction in my life. I feel very overwhelmed at everything that is going on around us and my own life is a little chaotic as well, so I just don't know where to start. I try to read the Bible, but find it very difficult to understand. Can anybody recommend one that this 52 year old brain can wrap itself around?

[Dave Knauss]

Hi Val, Let me educationally explain intimacy with God in Biblical language, and then by application. Abraham was said to be able to see that which was not, and speak it into existence, and this was accounted unto him as faith and righteousness. As a result, God called Abraham His friend. Wow, what a pronouncement by God Himself! The Bible also says, Draw nigh unto Him and He will draw nigh unto you. Additionally, we are to cast down vain imaginations (meaning also to keep the righteous ones), and that we are made in the image of God. Now, how do all these relate? I believe "image = imagination = faith = drawing nigh = righteousness" are all intertwined. We are made in the image of God, which is the root of imagination. To imagine righteously is the exercising of faith and faith greatly pleases God. He accounts this to us as righteousness. Here's the application: I spend time with the Lord with music "soaking" in His presence. I imagine myself on His lap wrapped up in His garments. Sometimes He speaks into my spirit and sometimes I go to sleep on His lap. (What does God think of sleeping on His lap? Ever have one of your children sleep on your lap?) At other soaking times, since I'm a pianist, I actually play spiritual music (my love songs) back to Him. Since He rejoices, sings, and dances over us, why not do it back to Him? (Zephaniah 3:17). The purer I keep my thoughts and life and draw nigh unto Him, He closer He draws nigh unto me. It is a peace that passes all understanding. Find yourself a favorite chair, put on quiet soothing spiritual soaking music, and spend time every day with Him. I believe real worship is being able to hear His singing songs over us (God's melodies are beyond words) and we sing and reflect them back to Him in whatever ways we can.

[Dave Knauss]

Hi Val, Dave here again. I have more questions to ask you. Forgive me for my challenging questions and responses, but I just HAVE to ask. I'm taking for granted you ARE saved (and it sounds like you believe you are). If not, that's the beginning--asking Jesus to forgive your sins, be born again, and live within you. Beyond initial salvation, do you ask Him to live His Word in you each day? Do you ask at the beginning of each day what He wants you to live that day and to show you in an actual verse(s)? If He doesn't answer, do you ask Him at the end of each day what He had you live that day and also show you in an actual verse(s)? "If any lack wisdom, let him ask of God who gives to all men liberally and never says that's a stupid question!" Underline and date those verses. Why don't you go to church? What part of any body can live by itself apart from the rest of the existing body? You're out there somewhere dying on your own. Do you spend quality time with God each day? Find a favorite chair, put on some quiet spiritual worship music, and simply rest in His presence. "Be still and know that I AM." God is "I AM"--forever present tense--right now--IS. Since you need a church, I invite you to Living Word Fellowship, Charleston Road, Wellsboro. Every Sunday I go 60-90 minutes early before the morning service (service starts at 10:00) and play love songs back to the Lord on the grand piano and digital keyboard. Whoever wants to join me in soaking in His presence comes! Your note sounds full of regrets. We all have them, and I have more than most. Are you living in SELF-condemnation? HE'S not condemning you--"There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus." Learn to enjoy His loving, non-condemning PRESENCE. Remember, I started this discussion by saying that God is not a religion, He's a relationship!

[Val]

Dave, thank you so much for the responses. It felt really good to read what you said to me. It brought me to tears. I hate to sound so stupid, but I don't know if I have been saved or not. Is it something I can do just between God and me or do I do it within a Church? And...by the way....ask all the questions you want! I have gone to church in the past, but right now I don't know what church to go to. I'm not Catholic. I grew up in the Congregational Church here in my home town in NH. I was baptized as a Protestant . I've been disheartened with my Reverand since last fall as I was told that she was pulling the election into her sermon so I didn't want any part of going there again. I did go up during the Christmas season and gave some children's clothes to the needy and I picked a couple of names off their tree and bought some Christmas gifts for a couple other little children. But other than that, I was discouraged to go on Sundays. I had some Jehovah's Witnesses come to my house one day and I must tell you that I was almost at wit's end when she knocked on the door. I felt like God had truly sent her there that day. But I'm confused there too. What is their belief?? Forgive my naiveity....I just don't know what is what...everyone claims to be the answer. Where do you live Dave? I live in NH...as you saw...I'm guessing that you don't! It would be a joy to take you up on your invitation if you were close! I might add that I'm married to a man 14 years older than me and have a 29 year old son about to be married in August. He lives in South Carolina, which is another part of my chaotic life. I miss him terribly and I also love the south, but my husband won't travel....he is total opposite of me honestly. He is not the type of person I could discuss God with. He has his own good qualities...(we've been together for 29 and some years) but he feels threatened somehow when he even senses anything religious coming out of my mouth and then it's difficult living with him. Years ago, I had a couple of Mormons coming to my house, and I enjoyed talking to them, but when he found out, that was the end of that. It's a touchy subject. My son isn't a church goer either, although he is a good boy, works hard and is dedicated to his fiancee. They have been together for 10 years and she is Catholic, so I'm hoping at least some of it will rub off on him in some way. He has been Baptized as a Methodist. LOL....does this sound like the totally disfunctional family ??? I have much confusion in my life, as you can see...and don't really know which way to go. But I have some good advice from you and I thank you and I hope you don't mind if I make a pest of myself on here! God Bless You!

Dave Knauss said:

Hi Val, Dave here again. I have more questions to ask you. Forgive me for my challenging questions and responses, but I just HAVE to ask. I'm taking for granted you ARE saved (and it sounds like you believe you are). If not, that's the beginning--asking Jesus to forgive your sins, be born again, and live within you. Beyond initial salvation, do you ask Him to live His Word in you each day? Do you ask at the beginning of each day what He wants you to live that day and to show you in an actual verse(s)? If He doesn't answer, do you ask Him at the end of each day what He had you live that day and also show you in an actual verse(s)? "If any lack wisdom, let him ask of God who gives to all men liberally and never says that's a stupid question!" Underline and date those verses. Why don't you go to church? What part of any body can live by itself apart from the rest of the existing body? You're out there somewhere dying on your own. Do you spend quality time with God each day? Find a favorite chair, put on some quiet spiritual worship music, and simply rest in His presence. "Be still and know that I AM." God is "I AM"--forever present tense--right now--IS. Since you need a church, I invite you to Living Word Fellowship, Charleston Road, Wellsboro. Every Sunday I go 60-90 minutes early before the morning service (service starts at 10:00) and play love songs back to the Lord on the grand piano and digital keyboard. Whoever wants to join me in soaking in His presence comes! Your note sounds full of regrets. We all have them, and I have more than most. Are you living in SELF-condemnation? HE'S not condemning you--"There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus." Learn to enjoy His loving, non-condemning PRESENCE. Remember, I started this discussion by saying that God is not a religion, He's a relationship!

[Val]

Sarah, thank you so much for your response. I am taking all of this in and with your help and God's guidance, I will be able to find peace within myself. To use someone else's words, I feel like I'm home here. It's very comforting. I do not work for kingdom....hopefully it's ok to be here. It wouldn't be unlike me to end up in the wrong place!! I'm just a 52 yr old woman from NH seeking divine guidance and I feel like I have come to the right place. It sounds like I'm on the right road, as I do talk with God throughout the day thanking him for enabling me to get through various parts of my day. I will try to read my Bible and understand it a little better. Perhaps if I pray to him to help me, He will. He is going to get so sick of me asking him things!! I like the visual of curling up in his lap too. This is humorous, but true....it's not something I am not familiar with, as I was always a heavy child, so was never one to be sitting on anyone's lap. And, now, at my age, it would be quite comforting...especially in these times. Thank you, again, Sarah. I look forward to many more discussions. Hopefully I can be of some help to someone else one day! God Bless You!

sarahjohns said:

Hi Val! Just another perspective to Dave & Katie's wise words. Have you ever talked to God like an ordinary person? He knows all but He is still interested in all you have to say, confess your feelings to Him, He can take whatever comes out! Then ask Him to give you His perspective on what you shared. It's a give & take and at first it may be suttle how you hear His response but soon if you're like me, your chatting all day with Him. He's always on my mind. I say a hearty amen to Dave's council on finding a church, there is strength in coming together with other believers, imperfect as we all are! I would also recommend that you join a exploring pod and give yourself a chance to explore what you believe. Am I correct in thinking you work at Kingdom? If you do, we are starting a new one next week on Wed, Feb 11 at noon in the conference room. It will be a safe place to help you on your journey to Christ. You are awesome to be seeking, that's a big part of the battle! If a person doesn't even desire to seek Him, it's alot harder to find Him. I recall as a young woman seeking to read my bible and falling asleep and feeling guilty, that's not from Christ! He is pleased with your attempt, keep pressing in. I found when I first starting reading the word a good daily devotional and a study bible are a great way to get started. Keep the questions coming, it puts a smile on your heavenly Father's face!

[Val]

Sarah, you may be sorry you ever responded to me!! lol!! I can't wait to have grandchildren of my own to enjoy! On a side note, I just have to say....I was just over at TS catching up on a couple of groups and it always puts such a fear in my heart when I read of all this stuff going on. Just coming in here, I get a sense of peacefulness....maybe that is God at work. Take care...and thank you....again! God Bless You !

sarahjohns said:

Val, I will write more but know this: you are in the right place here! God loves the questions and He has the answers! I'll write more when I get a chance, my 5 yr old granddaughter is here right now and she's patiently waiting for me to get off! God bless you in your journey! I look forward to getting to know you better & watch your adventure via this venue!

[Lisa]

Val said:

Sarah, you may be sorry you ever responded to me!! lol!! I can't wait to have grandchildren of my own to enjoy! On a side note, I just have to say....I was just over at TS catching up on a couple of groups and it always puts such a fear in my heart when I read of all this stuff going on. Just coming in here, I get a sense of peacefulness....maybe that is God at work. Take care...and thank you....again! God Bless You !

sarahjohns said:

Val, I will write more but know this: you are in the right place here! God loves the questions and He has the answers! I'll write more when I get a chance, my 5 yr old granddaughter is here right now and she's patiently waiting for me to get off! God bless you in your journey! I look forward to getting to know you better & watch your adventure via this venue!

[Lisa]

Ok I admit it. I'm mystified by how this site works. That's humbling when some of you know me as a Tech type. I think I am replying to my own empty reply.
Hey Val, I know I am new to you. I am friends with both Dave and Sarah. Great people! Dave invited me to the site. This discussion intrigued me so here I am. I see you have been asking some very real questions.
We all live in Pa so the invite to Living Word may not be practicle for you. However, I do think you should find a church that works for you. It is ok to look around until you find one where you like the people and feel accepted. I don't think God cares about the denomination nearly as much as us humans. We may attend any number of churches that use any number of religious forms and styles. There is always someone who will say that your style is worng. The thing that makes the difference is how you personally see and relate to the Lord.
I see that you mentioned backing off from a previous church because the Pastor was bringing the elections into the message. Different Pastors will handle that one in any number of ways. I think it is more of a legal issue, because of one of our silly laws than a spiritual issue. Was she explaining who the canidates lined up with the Bible? Nothing wrong with that. You will find that in any church there is always someone who disagrees with Pastor and is not afraid to say it. I am part of a church that has been through a major disagreement. Believe me I have heard bunches about Pastors' (He and she work as a team) limitations and errors. I said a few things myself. Be that as it may, I have since repented and by the grace of God am still attending that church.
You asked what Bible translation to use. I find NIV to be easy to read and understand. You might also like a paraphase such as The Living Bible or The Message. Old King James is about the most difficult thing out there because we don't write or talk like that anymore.
I see you are not sure if you are saved. Salvation is one of the keys to understanding the Word. You see the Bible is God's instructions to Christians. I can't give you the reference but it does say that God can hide the meaning for those who are not His own. When you accept Christ (another word for salvation) the Holy Sprit comes to help you understand the Word and how to walk with God. It does not have to be church thing. You can do it in your own home, the car, the woods, or the church, whatever works for you. Mostly it means asking/inviting the Lord into your life and repenting of any known sins such as anger toward people or God, or behavior not in line with the Bible. Believe me at 52 I don't expect you to list them all but you can if you want. That's all salvation really is. Then we a needto read the word and spend time with other Christians so that we can learn how to walk with God. Gods love for and acceptance of us is not affected by what we do. He loves us when we give to others at Christmas. He even loves us when we mess up so babdly that we lose our jobs or land in jail. You see it is not about what we do for God. It is about our relationship with Him.
You mentioned that you have had encounters with Mormons and Jehovas Witnesses. They are both considered cults but base their beliefs on some things very similar to the Bible. However I don't think either views Jesus as the Risen Savior born of a virgin who died for our sins, is currently seated in heaven at the right hand of Father God and will return for us some day. For what it's worth the Bible says that Jesus is praying for us while he is in heaven.
I have said quite lot here. I hope I haven't overwhelmed you. Hang in there. Keep praying even if it does not feel like God hears you. He does.
Lisa



Lisa said:

Val said:

Sarah, you may be sorry you ever responded to me!! lol!! I can't wait to have grandchildren of my own to enjoy! On a side note, I just have to say....I was just over at TS catching up on a couple of groups and it always puts such a fear in my heart when I read of all this stuff going on. Just coming in here, I get a sense of peacefulness....maybe that is God at work. Take care...and thank you....again! God Bless You !

sarahjohns said:

Val, I will write more but know this: you are in the right place here! God loves the questions and He has the answers! I'll write more when I get a chance, my 5 yr old granddaughter is here right now and she's patiently waiting for me to get off! God bless you in your journey! I look forward to getting to know you better & watch your adventure via this venue!

[Val]

Hi Lisa,

Bless your heart for your extending your hand to me. I have learned alot, just in the last two days from the three of you. Thank you for helping me understand about the Jehovahs and the Mormons. I'm so naive....but I figure, there's no stupid question. You haven't overwhelmed me in the least. On the contrary, I am getting alot out of everything everyone has told me and I am so grateful for you all. I was just pawing through my books and I discovered that I have a King James Bible, a Gideon Bible, a pocket size book My Way of Life-St. Thomas, and this last one made me stop and think....It's a paperback 1285 pages called The Book, a special edition of the Living Bible. I've had this book for years, and it's been sitting in my bookcase unread. I opened it up and there was this older piece of yellow lined paper folded in quarters. On the outside are the words "To You" I opened it up and just three little words: "I Love You". It looks like something my son made when he was a little boy but finding it in this book was heartwarming, to say the least. Needless to say, that is my bookmark! Have you ever heard of this book? As far as my reverand, the way it was explained to me was that she was pushing people to vote for Obama, and I didn't feel that it was right of her to use the pulput or her influence in the Church to try to persuade people one way or the other. It didn't make me feel good about going back there at all, so I will take your advice and search until I find one I am comfortable with. Things are becoming clearer for me, thanks to you kind people. I look forward to checking in here daily. It is my saving grace. God Bless You and I will talk with you soon!

Lisa said:

Ok I admit it. I'm mystified by how this site works. That's humbling when some of you know me as a Tech type. I think I am replying to my own empty reply.
Hey Val, I know I am new to you. I am friends with both Dave and Sarah. Great people! Dave invited me to the site. This discussion intrigued me so here I am. I see you have been asking some very real questions.
We all live in Pa so the invite to Living Word may not be practicle for you. However, I do think you should find a church that works for you. It is ok to look around until you find one where you like the people and feel accepted. I don't think God cares about the denomination nearly as much as us humans. We may attend any number of churches that use any number of religious forms and styles. There is always someone who will say that your style is worng. The thing that makes the difference is how you personally see and relate to the Lord.
I see that you mentioned backing off from a previous church because the Pastor was bringing the elections into the message. Different Pastors will handle that one in any number of ways. I think it is more of a legal issue, because of one of our silly laws than a spiritual issue. Was she explaining who the canidates lined up with the Bible? Nothing wrong with that. You will find that in any church there is always someone who disagrees with Pastor and is not afraid to say it. I am part of a church that has been through a major disagreement. Believe me I have heard bunches about Pastors' (He and she work as a team) limitations and errors. I said a few things myself. Be that as it may, I have since repented and by the grace of God am still attending that church.
You asked what Bible translation to use. I find NIV to be easy to read and understand. You might also like a paraphase such as The Living Bible or The Message. Old King James is about the most difficult thing out there because we don't write or talk like that anymore.
I see you are not sure if you are saved. Salvation is one of the keys to understanding the Word. You see the Bible is God's instructions to Christians. I can't give you the reference but it does say that God can hide the meaning for those who are not His own. When you accept Christ (another word for salvation) the Holy Sprit comes to help you understand the Word and how to walk with God. It does not have to be church thing. You can do it in your own home, the car, the woods, or the church, whatever works for you. Mostly it means asking/inviting the Lord into your life and repenting of any known sins such as anger toward people or God, or behavior not in line with the Bible. Believe me at 52 I don't expect you to list them all but you can if you want. That's all salvation really is. Then we a needto read the word and spend time with other Christians so that we can learn how to walk with God. Gods love for and acceptance of us is not affected by what we do. He loves us when we give to others at Christmas. He even loves us when we mess up so babdly that we lose our jobs or land in jail. You see it is not about what we do for God. It is about our relationship with Him.
You mentioned that you have had encounters with Mormons and Jehovas Witnesses. They are both considered cults but base their beliefs on some things very similar to the Bible. However I don't think either views Jesus as the Risen Savior born of a virgin who died for our sins, is currently seated in heaven at the right hand of Father God and will return for us some day. For what it's worth the Bible says that Jesus is praying for us while he is in heaven.
I have said quite lot here. I hope I haven't overwhelmed you. Hang in there. Keep praying even if it does not feel like God hears you. He does.
Lisa



Lisa said:

Val said:

Sarah, you may be sorry you ever responded to me!! lol!! I can't wait to have grandchildren of my own to enjoy! On a side note, I just have to say....I was just over at TS catching up on a couple of groups and it always puts such a fear in my heart when I read of all this stuff going on. Just coming in here, I get a sense of peacefulness....maybe that is God at work. Take care...and thank you....again! God Bless You !

sarahjohns said:

Val, I will write more but know this: you are in the right place here! God loves the questions and He has the answers! I'll write more when I get a chance, my 5 yr old granddaughter is here right now and she's patiently waiting for me to get off! God bless you in your journey! I look forward to getting to know you better & watch your adventure via this venue!

[Dave Knauss]

Good morning everyone,
I had no idea when I posted my little paragraph that it would catalyze such a conversation. Val, it's been great connecting with you. Don't apologize--that's why this site was created--to edify God's children. Let's consider basics--are you saved? I'd say YES from reading your thoughts and questions because "dead people" (unsaved) simply don't care to ask. You may presently be in Gal. 4:1+ wherein it says the son (saved person) in the beginning stages is no different from a servant (unsaved person) until a certain level of growth. I know Sarah's and Lisa's hearts and lives, and what they've told you completely lines up with what they live. What they've said completely agrees with what they do and where they are in Jesus. I make that point for you to ponder in your circumstances. The entire matter really goes back to where we've begun. You've asked us all these questions, but really, have you asked God? I'm going to keep pointing you back to Him. We can write lots and you can read tons, but still you need to be connected to the only satisfying source there is--God and a relationship with Him. So what have you done to connect with Him since beginning this whole conversation?
(PS: May I challenge you more? Of course, your husband is completely opposite from you--that's the spiritual reason why you married him! As marriage acts out the roles of Christ and His church, our spouses have all the characteristics that we individually lack. When you live a meek and loving life around your spouse, God promises you will win him over and even bring him to salvation if he is not saved!)
(PSS: Stop considering all the wrongs in your pastor and church. We're all woefully imperfect and have sorely come short of God's glory. In finding fault, you align yourself in agreement with satan, who is the day and night accuser of the brethren. Go to church instead with contentment and blessings, and then you live the characteristics of Jesus--full of grace and love. I view going to church as a calling from God--like being a missionary is a calling. He decided for me where my family and I attend, and I'll stay there until He decides otherwise. While I'm there, it makes no difference to me how everyone else acts or thinks. Back to, have you asked God? Leave religion behind for a relationship.)
Blessings, Dave K.