In my teachings I do not try to get involved with the law of religions but the law of faith and love. I do want to put this out there and see what you all have to say about it.. What do you really think about Sabbath day keeping and your thought on should we say "Easter" in preference to the "Passover".. There are those who liken to debate it and You are welcome to share the scriptures of coarse. Please explain...
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I am closing this discussion because I think it is falling into the catagory of 'endless discussions.' There are many places on the web to hash out doctrine. KingdomInsight is primarily for sharing insight on how to advance his kingdom. Lets focus our energy on how to stir one another up to love and good deeds. Blessings.
Yehuda,
I doubt that any Christian will argue with you on that. We have not eliminated the 10 commandments. We view the resurection of Christ as payment for our sins including the breaking of the 10 commandments. Meaning that if we come to the Lord, genuinely repent of our sins, and seek forgiveness, the debt has been paid and the Lord will receive us, leading to eternal life. We believe that Christ sits at the right hand of the father and interceedes for us. I have never met a genuine Christian who denies the 10 commandments. I have met several who use other parts of the law to help us gain understanding of both covenants...Old and New Testaments. Those of us who believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (a can of worms itself) see it only as a full of expression something available to all. It is simply to help us walk in the authority of the Lord in this earthly world. When we are honest we cannot deny the sedar, the passover or any of that. Christ was born, ministered, captured, tortured, crucified and resurected in the context of the Jewish faith. In fact he was Jewish. He entered Jerusalem that final time because He was celebrating the Passover. He, however, presented things that challenged the religious authorities of His time. I have heard and agree with teachings that see the original Passover in Egypt as a type of, and predictor of the salvation. The death angel passed over the homes with the Lamb's blood on the door post. In Egypt it was a litteral four legged, unblemished, animal lamb. In our time the Lamb is Christ, 2 legged, God in the form of man, crucified and resurected. We are passed over when we recieve the Lamb's blood via Salvation, not recieving the death that we deserve.
Your turn Danny. I know I jumped in.
Yehudah Anash said:
Where are all of the other posts???? Why do you delete what you cannot refute with Scripture??? You speak of converting true believers to a paganistic religion, and then speak of salvation and the gift of tongues. You are all over the place here!!! With the murder of Yeshua, we were redeemed from the curse of the law. The Law Of Salvation!! We no longer need to slay our prized calf to atone for our sins, and by the stripes of Yeshua, we are healed. Yah's word IS THE LAW!!! We are not redeemed of all of Yah's word!! Yah handed Moses 10 laws!!! We are not redeemed of those, or the many other laws Yah has given us!!! Yeshua came to the earth the first time, because man was not following the laws of worship. They created denominations, and worshiped the way they saw fit, rather than adhering to the laws of worship issued to us by Yah. The death of Yeshua did not exclude us from those laws of worship in which he came to re-establish, and purify!!!
I offer you to show me whatever scripture that is in direct contradiction of this!! Book, chapter, and verse Please.
Totally agree! That is the Gospel of Christ! Relationship and Fellowship with the Lord! Walking and talking with Jesus.. It is reality that comes by the Holy Spirit of God. I remember one night, things weren't going so well. Everything seems to be in turmoil. The devil was out to devour and I was His subject.. Then the Lord came into my room.. His presence was as if you walked into a florist shop of Roses, it took over my senses and I knew that the Lord has visited me. A word come Forth, Danny, you are going to be used of the Lord... And to this day, I have honored the Lord's calling and will never forget His visitation that night... Blessings..
I love the Lord and I love having a deep relationship with Him. If the woman with the issue of blood needed only to touch the hem of His garment and virtue flowed out of Him to make her clean, clean, clean, I place myself on His lap and breast and wrap myself tightly in His garments every night when I go to sleep, praying that His virtue will flow all through me. His garments smell so sweet. (I have learned how "I AM" is not only a reference to His forever present existance, but also His deep relationship with us of allowing us to be forever in His Presence, just like Moses learned.) I know, one day, when I meet Him face to face, He shall say to me, "My dearest David, come, sit here on my lap in the place night after night and day after day you made special for both of us."
So going back to one of your comments in your initial post about religion vs. grace and truth, Christians should ditch religion and go for relationship.
Hi Everyone, I too am aware of the beauty and purity of the original feasts and their meanings. I know that Jesus is the ultimate fulfillment of all the feasts both here in this world and in Heaven. I am also aware of the Roman calendar and the pagan origins of its holidays. I've tried for years to reconcile the two in my heart, but have not been successful. It's been interesting reading your thoughts back and forth. On the one side, there is a part in Isaiah where God says He's sick of their feasts and solemn assemblies without the purity of their hearts in them. On the other, the pagan derivations surely cause God to feel the same. I can say I'm so rejoicing in the fact that one day Jesus will forever set everything back to the beauty of holiness and in the meantime His Grace and Love covers a multitude of misperceptions, twistings, deceptions, and so forth. This one thing I know for certain: NO COUNTERFEIT (or derivation) CAN EXIST WITHOUT FIRST HAVING THE AUTHENTIC. So, somewhere behind all the counterfeits, there is The Truth to be worshipped, loved, and cherished, and the fountain of all Truth is the eternal "I AM" preeminently to be worshipped, loved, and cherished.
I think people are often confused about the answers to the questions above. Many years ago, I did some study to understand how to think about these things. Those who know me, know that I am a technical thinker. For me, there needs to be 'strucuture' to look at that makes sense. Here is what I found...The feasts, holidays, festivals, etc. are part of the Old Covenant, as is "The Law". As long as we are alive, we are under 'The Law'.
But! Festivals such as Passover came BEFORE the law...didn't they? It was created by the actual Passover of the Angel of Death while the Israelites were in Egypt...and was continued on as directed of God at that time. The law had not yet been given. And didn't God tell Moses to tell the people to do this so they would remember?...I'll have to go look this up again.
I believe again that as the Holy Spirit is in the Born again Believer in Christ, the Holy Spirit leads us in the truth of all things.. If our heart condemns us not, we have peace with God.. If any Christian is doing something by glorifying the flesh, or being carnally motivated, the Holy Spirit will bear us witness, that it is wrong, and we shouldn't do it by any means. I believe that we live in a Paganistic world and it shall be so until Christ returns and sets up His Kingdom and what matters most is our relationship and our fellowship with the Lord. If you share a real genuine intimacy in your walk with him, that is all that matters, and if you experience this whether your worship is on Saturday Sabbath or Sunday service, if you color Easter eggs or decorate the Christmas Tree, What God wants most is the love of your heart and if you love Him over all these other things, that one day will pass away, that is all that matters..Now who knows, the Lord may test us for I recall a man who was a great Tennis player that has achieved the height of His profession, came and gave His heart to the Lord and the Lord told Him, Son, I want you to quit playing Tennis..This stunned the man for Tennis was his whole life and it was all He knew to do. But He agreed and said, Lord, I will lay it down for you and He did.. The next month a big tournament came up which a lot of money was at stake..The manager of this man said, I've got you signed up to play but He said, No, I have put Tennis behind me and He refused to play.. The Lord spoke to him again and said, I now see that your love for me is far greater! You have my blessings to play.. He still refused to play.. He said, Lord, I once gave my life and my love to be the best at Tennis, but now I gave my life to you.. Now I want to be the best at whatever I do for you because I now found a new love in you.. Blessings..
I think people are often confused about the answers to the questions above.
Many years ago, I did some study to understand how to think about these things. Those who know me, know that I am a technical thinker. For me, there needs to be 'strucuture' to look at that makes sense.
Here is what I found...
The feasts, holidays, festivals, etc. are part of the Old Covenant, as is "The Law". As long as we are alive, we are under 'The Law'.
That doesn't look pretty. The law brings us under a curse. Why? Well, because we are law breakers. Even the best of us violate God's law. And, it requires all types of things... Just read the Old Testament. Keeping the Sabbath is just one part of a huge list of requirements.
So? What do we do.
There is only one thing we can do. That is die. Dead people are not under the Law. How do we die? Well, we die to our lives and live to and for God. He has our life after we die, his intention is to live HIS LIFE through US. This is what baptism symbolizes.
And, therefore we are not 'bound' to the law any more. But, that doesn't mean we are free to sin, of course. How can we sin if Jesus is living His life through us? That would be hard to even think about. Sure, we can CHOOSE to set aside days and holidays to honor him. But, dead people are not under the law's requirements for new moon holidays, festivals, Sabbaths and so forth.
If you believe in Christ and have not followed his instructions to be baptised... that would be a good place to start. Just like a marriage symbolizes the union of a man and a woman, baptism sybolizes our union with Christ. And, I might add - let's quit introducing people into the Kingdom WITHOUT baptism. That would be like blessing the union of a woman and a man without the ceremony of marriage. It is just not 'responsible' to do it that way. :-) Be blessed!
There is one VERY important thing we would all do well to remember; and is the fact that God, did not give us the names for the days of the week Sunday, Monday Tuesday, and so on.
The Word of God simple states that God rested from His work on the 7th day.
The Apostle Paul addressed this issue when he stated that there are those that esteem one day as higher than the rest, and there are those that treat everyday alike, so whether we place one day above the others, or treat everyday equally, we do it as unto the Lord. (Loose translation)
Those who see Easter, Christmas, and Christmas trees as pagan, should never participate in them, as this would go against their conscience, and thereby making it a stumbling block between them and God.
Whereas, those who celebrate Easter (which, for Christians, started off as a celebration of Spring when "new life" is given to those things which had the appearance of something dead (i;e tree)). This is in recognition of Christ's resurrection from the dead (grave). Christmas:The date and/or month of the birth of Christ (Messiah) is not recorded, so the early Church set the date to be the same as that of a pagan holiday so that the Christians can also have a reason to celebrate on that day. It is for this reason that some do not wish to celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25th, or for some, not at all. Christmas trees: Christmas trees are another point of disagreement between Christians, and Christians and other beliefs.
Yes, a tree was used for (yet) another pagan reason, so this prevents some from even having a Christmas tree in their home, or decorating it as well.
I shared all of that to say this, we are not to judge another person's walk with God as according to our beliefs and traditions.
We are however, not to let the freedoms we have in Christ Jesus, to be a stumbling block towards another believer.
I personally see nothing wrong with Easter eggs, as they represent a new life; likewise, I see nothing wrong with having a Christmas tree decorated over the Christmas holidays. Why? Because I like to look at it from this point of view. God made the trees, and said "It is good". So if God says they are good, who am I to go against God?
IMHO, things like Christmas trees, are like everything else God has made. They are "good". What makes the difference, is what "man" chooses to use those things, which God has created, for. Good or Evil?
Replies
I doubt that any Christian will argue with you on that. We have not eliminated the 10 commandments. We view the resurection of Christ as payment for our sins including the breaking of the 10 commandments. Meaning that if we come to the Lord, genuinely repent of our sins, and seek forgiveness, the debt has been paid and the Lord will receive us, leading to eternal life. We believe that Christ sits at the right hand of the father and interceedes for us. I have never met a genuine Christian who denies the 10 commandments. I have met several who use other parts of the law to help us gain understanding of both covenants...Old and New Testaments. Those of us who believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (a can of worms itself) see it only as a full of expression something available to all. It is simply to help us walk in the authority of the Lord in this earthly world. When we are honest we cannot deny the sedar, the passover or any of that. Christ was born, ministered, captured, tortured, crucified and resurected in the context of the Jewish faith. In fact he was Jewish. He entered Jerusalem that final time because He was celebrating the Passover. He, however, presented things that challenged the religious authorities of His time. I have heard and agree with teachings that see the original Passover in Egypt as a type of, and predictor of the salvation. The death angel passed over the homes with the Lamb's blood on the door post. In Egypt it was a litteral four legged, unblemished, animal lamb. In our time the Lamb is Christ, 2 legged, God in the form of man, crucified and resurected. We are passed over when we recieve the Lamb's blood via Salvation, not recieving the death that we deserve.
Your turn Danny. I know I jumped in.
Yehudah Anash said:
Totally agree! That is the Gospel of Christ! Relationship and Fellowship with the Lord! Walking and talking with Jesus.. It is reality that comes by the Holy Spirit of God. I remember one night, things weren't going so well. Everything seems to be in turmoil. The devil was out to devour and I was His subject.. Then the Lord came into my room.. His presence was as if you walked into a florist shop of Roses, it took over my senses and I knew that the Lord has visited me. A word come Forth, Danny, you are going to be used of the Lord... And to this day, I have honored the Lord's calling and will never forget His visitation that night... Blessings..
So going back to one of your comments in your initial post about religion vs. grace and truth, Christians should ditch religion and go for relationship.
Many years ago, I did some study to understand how to think about these things. Those who know me, know that I am a technical thinker. For me, there needs to be 'strucuture' to look at that makes sense.
Here is what I found...
The feasts, holidays, festivals, etc. are part of the Old Covenant, as is "The Law". As long as we are alive, we are under 'The Law'.
That doesn't look pretty. The law brings us under a curse. Why? Well, because we are law breakers. Even the best of us violate God's law. And, it requires all types of things... Just read the Old Testament. Keeping the Sabbath is just one part of a huge list of requirements.
So? What do we do.
There is only one thing we can do. That is die. Dead people are not under the Law. How do we die? Well, we die to our lives and live to and for God. He has our life after we die, his intention is to live HIS LIFE through US. This is what baptism symbolizes.
And, therefore we are not 'bound' to the law any more. But, that doesn't mean we are free to sin, of course. How can we sin if Jesus is living His life through us? That would be hard to even think about. Sure, we can CHOOSE to set aside days and holidays to honor him. But, dead people are not under the law's requirements for new moon holidays, festivals, Sabbaths and so forth.
If you believe in Christ and have not followed his instructions to be baptised... that would be a good place to start. Just like a marriage symbolizes the union of a man and a woman, baptism sybolizes our union with Christ. And, I might add - let's quit introducing people into the Kingdom WITHOUT baptism. That would be like blessing the union of a woman and a man without the ceremony of marriage. It is just not 'responsible' to do it that way. :-) Be blessed!
The Word of God simple states that God rested from His work on the 7th day.
The Apostle Paul addressed this issue when he stated that there are those that esteem one day as higher than the rest, and there are those that treat everyday alike, so whether we place one day above the others, or treat everyday equally, we do it as unto the Lord. (Loose translation)
Those who see Easter, Christmas, and Christmas trees as pagan, should never participate in them, as this would go against their conscience, and thereby making it a stumbling block between them and God.
Whereas, those who celebrate Easter (which, for Christians, started off as a celebration of Spring when "new life" is given to those things which had the appearance of something dead (i;e tree)). This is in recognition of Christ's resurrection from the dead (grave).
Christmas:The date and/or month of the birth of Christ (Messiah) is not recorded, so the early Church set the date to be the same as that of a pagan holiday so that the Christians can also have a reason to celebrate on that day. It is for this reason that some do not wish to celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25th, or for some, not at all.
Christmas trees: Christmas trees are another point of disagreement between Christians, and Christians and other beliefs.
Yes, a tree was used for (yet) another pagan reason, so this prevents some from even having a Christmas tree in their home, or decorating it as well.
I shared all of that to say this, we are not to judge another person's walk with God as according to our beliefs and traditions.
We are however, not to let the freedoms we have in Christ Jesus, to be a stumbling block towards another believer.
I personally see nothing wrong with Easter eggs, as they represent a new life; likewise, I see nothing wrong with having a Christmas tree decorated over the Christmas holidays. Why? Because I like to look at it from this point of view. God made the trees, and said "It is good". So if God says they are good, who am I to go against God?
IMHO, things like Christmas trees, are like everything else God has made. They are "good". What makes the difference, is what "man" chooses to use those things, which God has created, for.
Good or Evil?
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