God in His creation.

[Lisa]

The Bible tells us that the Lord is visible even in His creation. I learn concepts and am horrible with exact scripture references. Can you scholars help me out here? I see God in His creation all of the time. Ever notice the incredible varierty of color and beauty in the birds or the flowers. Although similar they are all different. Shape, color, size, behavior each is unique and fascinating in its own way. For me the ultimate in the Lord's creation and complexity is a bug. Yes, I'm weird that way. I like bugs, especially bottom dwelling stream instects (Macrobenthic insects). It is amazing how complex these things are; every leg has numerous joints, their mouths have numerous moving parts, and the immature stage ussually looks radically different from the adult. At the genus level identification may be determined by the size of a "hair", the prescence of a "thumb" on a mouth part, or the location and shape of a hard skeletal plate (sclerite). When even these "simple" things are so complex how can evolution even be considered? A random beneficial mutation? Since when? How/where do you see the Lord in his creation?

[Mo]

"For me the ultimate in the Lord's creation and complexity is a bug."

I totally agree! Not just the physical complexity, but the actual characteristics of the bugs and their purpose.


- I do not need to steal from others to live, but I choose to do so because it is easier than working for what I need.
- Because I do, I am responsible for the deaths of 1.5 million each year and over 300 million illnesses each year.
- I spread my death locally because I am too lazy to travel far for what I want.
- I prey on the poor and the weak.
- You can't stop me, as there are too many of me. You can only evade me by inconveniencing yourself.
- I reproduce at a rate that is more than sustainable for me and I outnumber your reproduction rates 1000 times over.
- The males in my family live for sex. In fact, they were designed to find females before finding food. They have no voice, nothing real to say.
- I have driven people to insantity from the noise I constantly make.

Who am I?

The female mosquito

Why did God make mosquitoes? I have heard this question many times... even ponderings from the pulpit.

Perhaps they were created to spread disease, control animal over-population, or to feed dragonflies (one of the only natural preditors of the moquito). I can't really say.

But I do know when you stop to think about their attributes, it sure looks like what happens in a society when people turn their backs on God and allow sin to control their lives. Look around, there seems to be a lot more moquitoes buzzing around our beautiful nation these days.

[Lisa]

Concept of God revealed through frogs? I live very near a large swamp. In the spring the male frogs sing to attract a mate. Most of these frogs are Spring Peepers. They are barely an inch long. I could easily fit a half doxen in my hand. On a cool day early in the season there will be only one or two frogs singing. One at a time they don't make much noise. However, as the season warms more and more frogs begin calling. When hundreds of these tiny little frogs call at the same time the noise is deafening. It is painful to walk the lane into the middle of the swamp and stand listening. I wonder if our worship is like that? One at a time we feel small and inefective although we know by faith that we do make a difference. A group of us all worshiping together are able to make much more sound. We also pick up on others intensity and worship, finding ourselves more clearly aware of the prescence of the Lord. The Bible does say in regard to prayer that one will chase a thousand. Two praying in agreement will chase ten thousand. So are we like those frogs haveing a greater effect when many are worshiping in agreement together?

[Juanita]

My husband and I visited a church today. It was so cool, in the back they had a really nice display of creation material. Very nice! I heard people talking on the news yesterday, they were talking about creation. And one person, rather ill informed said, "Well all of the scientists believe in evolution." So NOT true!

[Mo]

Juanita said:

My husband and I visited a church today. It was so cool, in the back they had a really nice display of creation material. Very nice! I heard people talking on the news yesterday, they were talking about creation. And one person, rather ill informed said, "Well all of the scientists believe in evolution." So NOT true!

My grandma used to say "ya can't make folks un-believe somethin'. It's like sewin' buttons on ice-cream".

I've found this statement to be true over and over in life, especially when it comes to debating topics such as creation vs evolution.

Human brains are wired to readily recall those things we hear frequently. The faster we can recall information, the more likely we are to accept it as a truth. This is natural. Being in Christ, however, is a supernatural experience where the Spirit speaks to us and through us and gives us discernment for truth.

We can argue until we are blue in the face regarding creation vs evolution, but until we invite the Holy Spirit into the conversation, we will have more luck sewing buttons on ice-cream than to cause someone to "un-believe" what they believe by use of our own words.

[Jerry Hartman]

I think that one of the most fascinating ways that God reveals himself through his creation is how he demonstrates his eternal existence and how big He is. I think he demonstrates this through the size of His creation. No matter how big our telescope is we can never find the end of the universe; it goes on forever. No matter how powerful our microscope is we can't find the smallest form of matter. Right now we can see electrons and protons, but what is inside of them. Maybe someday we will find out that there is another whole realm of existence inside them. And maybe another one inside the next layer. It is as if there is no end to the smallness inside God's creation. Just like our God. No end to how big He is and no end to how small the details of Him are. Isn't it interesting that at both ends of the spectrum we see spheres revolving around spheres. The moons revolve around plants, the planets revolve around stars, and the stars revolve around the center of a galaxy. Are the galaxies revolving around something? At the other end we have electrons revolving around protons and neutrons. Talk about a signature from our creator!

[Juanita]

Mo said:

Juanita said:

My husband and I visited a church today. It was so cool, in the back they had a really nice display of creation material. Very nice! I heard people talking on the news yesterday, they were talking about creation. And one person, rather ill informed said, "Well all of the scientists believe in evolution." So NOT true!

My grandma used to say "ya can't make folks un-believe somethin'. It's like sewin' buttons on ice-cream".

I've found this statement to be true over and over in life, especially when it comes to debating topics such as creation vs evolution.

Human brains are wired to readily recall those things we hear frequently. The faster we can recall information, the more likely we are to accept it as a truth. This is natural. Being in Christ, however, is a supernatural experience where the Spirit speaks to us and through us and gives us discernment for truth.

We can argue until we are blue in the face regarding creation vs evolution, but until we invite the Holy Spirit into the conversation, we will have more luck sewing buttons on ice-cream than to cause someone to "un-believe" what they believe by use of our own words.

True - but, a large number of people just 'assume' that it isn't 'rational' to believe in God because they never heard the other side. They don't hear it in school, on TV or on the radio. And, lots of times Christians don't give people another point of view. I think sometimes Christians don't even know what we believe or why. I think we all need to learn how to defend our faith and defend it with facts. I totally agree, if people don't want to believe anything different, they won't. But sometimes defending helps -- my dad was an atheist until my husband and I presented some facts to him that he couldn't dispute. He then modified to say that he didn't know if God existed. It was a start!

[Paige]

Genisis 2 speak of seeing God in the midst of creation....and Isaiah 40:26 says Lift up your eyes on high, and see who has created these things .

I am forever amazed by God's creation....and I love sitting on my back porch listening to creation's song. You can almost hear the flowers and grass...even the rocks that cry out praises...all as the birds sing out the harmony. UHG!! It is hard to contain once you start seeing the face of God in all that He made.

[Lisa]

My husband and I visited a church today. It was so cool, in the back they had a really nice display of creation material. Very nice! I heard people talking on the news yesterday, they were talking about creation. And one person, rather ill informed said, "Well all of the scientists believe in evolution." So NOT true!


Juanita, It's a common misconception that all scientists believe in evolution. So much of the scientific naming pattern is based on evolutionary concepts that scientists can appear to agree even when they do not. I worked and volunteered a few summers at a local federal water quality and fish research lab. Mostly there was professional courtesy regarding views on evolution. There was enough gentle probing by others to reveal that not agreeing with evolution makes one a bit odd or misunderstood. There is peer pressure for scientists to agree with evolution and not look into creation science. I don't think that all the team leaders (PHD's) at the facility agreed with evolution but they did not openly discuss their beliefs.
There is sound science available to back up creation. Unfortunately, we do a poor job of making the material available. Many of us view science as that difficult subject we don't understand anyway and never take the time to discover what is available. I believe Ken Ham teaches creation science. My local radio station uses radio drama to teach creation science (I'v forgotten the title.) I borrowed a book from a sceince teacher a the church I attend before I was able to let go of my undestanding of evolution. Unfortunatly, I have as usual forgotten the title of the book. It explained the difference between natural selection/survival of the most fit. (which I find believable) and evolution. Evolution takes survival of the fitest to extremes and states that fit beings of one group (fish for example) can evolve or change into something new (say a lizard). If this was true there should be transitional fossils showing characters of both. There are no transitional fossils. Also, it can be sucessfully argued that fossil deposits fit a sudden death incident such as the Noahic flood.
There are structural similarities among many of Gods creatures. For example the skeletal structure of riptiles, birds and mammals is similar. I was recently amazed to discover how much a skinned chukar, a small chicken like bird, resembled a skinned squirrel. (Sorry if that's a bit gross.) Could it be that this similarity is just another way for the Lord to put his mark on creation?
Paige thank you for the Biblical references.

[Juanita]

Lisa said:

My husband and I visited a church today. It was so cool, in the back they had a really nice display of creation material. Very nice! I heard people talking on the news yesterday, they were talking about creation. And one person, rather ill informed said, "Well all of the scientists believe in evolution." So NOT true!


Juanita, It's a common misconception that all scientists believe in evolution. So much of the scientific naming pattern is based on evolutionary concepts that scientists can appear to agree even when they do not. I worked and volunteered a few summers at a local federal water quality and fish research lab. Mostly there was professional courtesy regarding views on evolution. There was enough gentle probing by others to reveal that not agreeing with evolution makes one a bit odd or misunderstood. There is peer pressure for scientists to agree with evolution and not look into creation science. I don't think that all the team leaders (PHD's) at the facility agreed with evolution but they did not openly discuss their beliefs.
There is sound science available to back up creation. Unfortunately, we do a poor job of making the material available. Many of us view science as that difficult subject we don't understand anyway and never take the time to discover what is available. I believe Ken Ham teaches creation science. My local radio station uses radio drama to teach creation science (I'v forgotten the title.) I borrowed a book from a sceince teacher a the church I attend before I was able to let go of my undestanding of evolution. Unfortunatly, I have as usual forgotten the title of the book. It explained the difference between natural selection/survival of the most fit. (which I find believable) and evolution. Evolution takes survival of the fitest to extremes and states that fit beings of one group (fish for example) can evolve or change into something new (say a lizard). If this was true there should be transitional fossils showing characters of both. There are no transitional fossils. Also, it can be sucessfully argued that fossil deposits fit a sudden death incident such as the Noahic flood.
There are structural similarities among many of Gods creatures. For example the skeletal structure of riptiles, birds and mammals is similar. I was recently amazed to discover how much a skinned chukar, a small chicken like bird, resembled a skinned squirrel. (Sorry if that's a bit gross.) Could it be that this similarity is just another way for the Lord to put his mark on creation?
Paige thank you for the Biblical references.

Lisa, thanks for the great information. I should have said "Science text books assume evolution is fact.'' ;-)

[Lisa]

And sir how do you prove that evolution is likely... have yet to see an experiment in that are that can be replicated numerous times.
Could we be completely wrong about how the fossil layers were deposited and the time it took to make it happen? Any chance that a massive flood could have produced the same? How do we explain upright logs passing through many layers?
Dating is assumed to be correct because we assume that isotopes have always formed at the same rate. What if they haven't.
So evolution is one view of how species changed. Natural selection and surivival of the fittest make sense. We see examples of it every day. However, I have yet to be convinced that a bird came from a reptitle or a mammal from a bird or a human from any other mammal despite physiological similarities. When is a change not a mutation? Where do plants fit in that anyway? For what it's worth I have read origin of the species.
What if many different lines were formed by some means with enough genetic code to remain the same organism but change, vary and adapt in a manner that guaranteed survival.
Could that spontaneous creation have occured because God had just spoken RNA, DNA and complete organisms into being....no I don't understand that .... most of us including you don't... we'd just like to think otherwise.

[DENNY]

Lisa, you make an excellent point. I was watching the snow fall where I live and the snow started building up against my sliding glass door. I noticed that the snow during the same snow resulted in over 100 layers of snow. I sat there counting them all and sure enough, the layers were all very distinct. I suspect a person could come along who was not aware of the snow storm and conclude that it may have taken 100 different snow storms for all those layers to form; however, it was just one storm that took place over a period of 24 hours.

[luminary2009]

It's interesting that there's seems to be a general acceptance that not all scientists believe in evolution. There's little discussion, however, about the fact that not all Christians are against the idea of evolution.

I'm not sure that the belief in evolution or what has been labeled "creationism" is what the Apostle Paul would consider to be an "essential." It seems that whether we came into existence by way of evolution or some other means really has nothing to do with the existence of God or a Creative Power. Evolution could a means of creation as easy as not. If God chose to bring this universe into existence through an evolutionary process, so be it. If not, so be it. I'm not sure why as believers in God need to paint ourselves into a corner over this point. It simply creates an easy, yet unnecessary derailment of what could be an interesting exploration.

Regardless of whether one is a scientist or a believer in God or both, we as humans are so far from understanding how this universe came into being and how it continues to exist. That we argue over our small pieces of knowledge is unfortunate. Perhaps by actually having a true dialogue based on respect, a desire to learn from each other, and a recognition of our collective ignorance we'll get a lot further toward understanding the universe we live in and in deepening our faith in either God, science or both.

Jim Gardner said:

Science is not about making assumptions, it is about establishing what can be proven to be true; removing uncertainties until only working hypothesises remain. In other words science is about establishing the exact opposite of an assumption. Text books which explain evolution do not do so on the assumption it is true, they do so on the evidence that it is highly likely to be true.

The mathematical probability of life having evolved by means of natural selection is a number with an almost infinite number of decimal places—because it grows exponentially each time new evidence in support of evolution is exposed to what scientific philosopher Karl Popper called falsification—the stronger of the logical processes between irrefutability and probability.

There may well be arguments between individual scientists over certain areas upon which evolution touches, such as in palaeontology where the age of certain fossils are incredibly difficult to gauge with a degree of accuracy any lower than a few million years. But these are not arguments about the validity of Darwinian evolution itself. They are about the way in which certain data sets are best located in the taxonomic table.

Remember, there is nothing within the theory of evolution which proposes origins. That is covered in the study of abiogenesis. Evolution theory is about what happened after the first spontaneous production of RNA and DNA as Alexander Oparin's and J. B. S. Haldane's famous experiment shows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis