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  This one has always gotten my attention. Goes deeper then this. We got hades being hell or it being a grave.We got hell being eternal torture lasting forever or second death (soul being destroyed).

 

 Start off with a few passages that support my view of Heaven after Jesus return.

 

Daniel12: 2

 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

Ecclesiastes 9:5-10

 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.  Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished;never again will they have a part  in anything that happens under the sun.

  Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for God has already approved what you do.  Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil.  Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun—all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun. 0 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

 

 

 

 

The death of Lazarus story is another one.

 Jesus told them Lazarus was asleep and that He was going to awaken him. The disciples responded that sleep was good because it would help him get well. Jesus then plainly told them, "Lazarus is dead". Notice that Jesus stated emphatically that Lazarus was dead, but at the same time He described death as a condition like sleep.

 

Lazarus had not gone to heaven or hell. He had been entombed, where he slept in death until Jesus called him out of the grave.

 

Okay just one more.

John 3:13 

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

 

Sincerely, I want to know what your opinions are.

 

 

 

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Wow James! That's awesome! I can see you have been planting some seeds yourself! Way to go, guy!

I don't have time to respond to this when the questions I have also, this morning as I am getting ready for work. I have two or three to reply to Steve tonight also.

In learning to share with each other, I think it is easy to understand how Job and his friends started out with the right intentions, but lost focus and started blasting each other and the Lord says, "Whoa fellas! slow down, backup and regroup. This is about Me, remember?" :-}}

Thanks James. I'll write back to you and Steve tonight.

Have a great day!

Mark

Wow, James!   I am truly amazed at your question!   I'll send this out to the whole community so you get lots of feedback!

 

- Juanita

 Thank you Juanita,

 I am looking forward to it.  Hope you can find time to add your thoughts.

 

 

Juanita said:

Wow, James!   I am truly amazed at your question!   I'll send this out to the whole community so you get lots of feedback!

 

- Juanita

JMJ . PRAY 4 GOD's MERCY . !  GB,

 

As to what happens to the believer & non-believer after death. "GOD" & only "GOD" will decide !

 

 

  No, when do believers go to heaven, Immediately After Death or After Jesus's Return 

 

Jesus says death is like sleep and that he will raise the dead in ( Revelation ) so they can be judged.

KD said:

JMJ . PRAY 4 GOD's MERCY . !  GB,

 

As to what happens to the believer & non-believer after death. "GOD" & only "GOD" will decide !

 

 

My opinion is not that important the Bible says in

2 Corinthians 5:8 (King James Version)

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.



Joffre Vivoni said:

My opinion is not that important the Bible says in

2 Corinthians 5:8 (King James Version)

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.



Okay but  2 Corinthians 5:6 (KJV )saids  Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord.
and Jesus said in John3:13 (KJV) although I like New International Version better because  the wording is more like we talk today.
John3:13 (KJV)
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven
John3:13 (NIV)

 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.


Joffre Vivoni said:

My opinion is not that important the Bible says in

2 Corinthians 5:8 (King James Version)

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

You've touched on a variety of Excellent Questions--ones that are critical for every single person alive!  I'll present some introductory material on one facet of your inquiry--Heaven and Hell.  What are they?  (My apologies to learned theological scholars for being too simplistic, but this is meant to be only introductory.)

Basic Premise:  God created everything that is good, wonderful, pleasurable, and so on.  In simple terms, everything that He is.  Stop and think about everything that is wonderful. An endless array of great tastes on your tongue, aesthetic sounds to your hearing, clean fresh air to breathe, wonderful fragrances of all sorts, all soft and pleasurable sensations to your touch, the satisfaction of any physical desire, the coolness of water across your thirsty tongue, amazing sunsets never any two alike, warm sunshine, refreshing colors to the eyes, gorgeous scenery wherever you go which is amazingly different on each continent even when in the same temperate zones, peace, rest, contentment, intrigue of mysteries, endless explorations into unknown territories of knowledge and discovery, the astounding array of objects in the universe at sizes beyond comprehension, and the pleasures of communication and relationship connections.  Shall I go on?

For a small glimpse into the vastness of the universe, Louis Giglio has a great way to explain it.  Check out all his excerpted presentations beginning with this first one.

Heaven:  God gave all of us an extraordinary preview of Heaven here on this problematic, faulty earth in this present, mortal life.  I've presented only a nanofraction of Heaven in the above description.   In fact, the closest accurate description is what the Bible says, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor has it even entered in the imagination of man what God has prepared for those who love Him."  Heaven is the total presence of God and everything His Presence emanates.  The presence of pure LOVE.  God describes this as eternal, ongoing life.

Hell:  Imagine the TOTAL absence of EVERYTHING great and pleasurable.  Torment and suffering in flames, total exhaustion, a thirst so violent that one would beg for even one drop of water, a darkness so great that even the flames do not give off any light, horrendous suffocating odors, ultimate repulsive stenches, no color, no light, no fresh air, the only sounds heard are of souls screaming in forever torment, total isolation from communication or relationships, total void and total hopelessness of ever experiencing a change, and the continuous feelings of purest hate.  This is called an eternal death.  Here on earth, we think of death as a moment in time.  But in hell, it is a continuously repeated and forever ongoing experiencing of death--the absence and forever loss of everything great and wonderful.  Hell is the total absence of everything that God is.  All who go there are those who simply wanted nothing to do with God or anything He is and gives.  Hell is the continuation of what people wished for and lived in their earthly lives--an existence without God.

One of the most startling books I ever read, next to the Bible, is Bill Wiese's book, 23 Minutes in Hell.

Question for YOU:  If even in the remotest chance that Heaven and Hell are REAL, are you willing to bet yourself for never-ending eternity?

All those who die go immediately to one or the other.  Hell is forever the lowest depths of death, but Heaven forever changes into more unimaginable.

 Thanks Dave 

 I guess I will start with the question you asked me at the end.

 

You asked:

Question for YOU:  If even in the remotest chance that Heaven and Hell are REAL, are you willing to bet yourself for never-ending eternity?

 

 Simple answer is " Yes "  If God is what the Bible says he is he knows my thoughs,He knows what I care about he knows I am mostly a good person. I have no fear of being judged for my actions in this life.

 

 Is Hell eternal? I'd have no problem showing bible verses that say other wise.



Dave Knauss said:

You've touched on a variety of Excellent Questions--ones that are critical for every single person alive!  I'll present some introductory material on one facet of your inquiry--Heaven and Hell.  What are they?  (My apologies to learned theological scholars for being too simplistic, but this is meant to be only introductory.)

Basic Premise:  God created everything that is good, wonderful, pleasurable, and so on.  In simple terms, everything that He is.  Stop and think about everything that is wonderful. An endless array of great tastes on your tongue, aesthetic sounds to your hearing, clean fresh air to breathe, wonderful fragrances of all sorts, all soft and pleasurable sensations to your touch, the satisfaction of any physical desire, the coolness of water across your thirsty tongue, amazing sunsets never any two alike, warm sunshine, refreshing colors to the eyes, gorgeous scenery wherever you go which is amazingly different on each continent even when in the same temperate zones, peace, rest, contentment, intrigue of mysteries, endless explorations into unknown territories of knowledge and discovery, the astounding array of objects in the universe at sizes beyond comprehension, and the pleasures of communication and relationship connections.  Shall I go on?

For a small glimpse into the vastness of the universe, Louis Giglio has a great way to explain it.  Check out all his excerpted presentations beginning with this first one.

Heaven:  God gave all of us an extraordinary preview of Heaven here on this problematic, faulty earth in this present, mortal life.  I've presented only a nanofraction of Heaven in the above description.   In fact, the closest accurate description is what the Bible says, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor has it even entered in the imagination of man what God has prepared for those who love Him."  Heaven is the total presence of God and everything His Presence emanates.  The presence of pure LOVE.  God describes this as eternal, ongoing life.

Hell:  Imagine the TOTAL absence of EVERYTHING great and pleasurable.  Torment and suffering in flames, total exhaustion, a thirst so violent that one would beg for even one drop of water, a darkness so great that even the flames do not give off any light, horrendous suffocating odors, ultimate repulsive stenches, no color, no light, no fresh air, the only sounds heard are of souls screaming in forever torment, total isolation from communication or relationships, total void and total hopelessness of ever experiencing a change, and the continuous feelings of purest hate.  This is called an eternal death.  Here on earth, we think of death as a moment in time.  But in hell, it is a continuously repeated and forever ongoing experiencing of death--the absence and forever loss of everything great and wonderful.  Hell is the total absence of everything that God is.  All who go there are those who simply wanted nothing to do with God or anything He is and gives.  Hell is the continuation of what people wished for and lived in their earthly lives--an existence without God.

One of the most startling books I ever read, next to the Bible, is Bill Wiese's book, 23 Minutes in Hell.

Question for YOU:  If even in the remotest chance that Heaven and Hell are REAL, are you willing to bet yourself for never-ending eternity?

All those who die go immediately to one or the other.  Hell is forever the lowest depths of death, but Heaven forever changes into more unimaginable.

     In the OT the spirit/soul of the righteous(those that believed in the coming of the messiah through the blood sacrifical system) went to the comforable side of Hell.  In the NT after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the spirit/soul of Christ's disciples go directly to heaven, the unbelievers spirit/soul goes to the uncomforable side of hell.  The resurrected Jesus Christ went to the comforable side of hell and brought the righteous spirit/soul to heaven.  In the next bodily resurrection, the spirit/soul of the OT and NT saints will be joined with Jesus Christ in the air(Rapture of the Church)(1 Cor 15 vs 51-52)(1 Thes 4 vs 13-18).  1007 years later the spirit/soul of the unrighteous will be joined with a resurrected body at he Great White Throne Judgment.  They will then be moved to Hell's eternal prison.   

Hi folks. I love this discussion and I love these replies. I haven't read through them all yet, but this is the way I envision Christians getting together, sharing, encouraging and getting recharged after a day's journey.

Before mom died, she tried to find a way for her kids to get together and so she held a Bible Study. There were about six of us that joined it. We each took turns leading it. But in order to do a topic we would have to dig and each one would come at it from a different angle...a different perspective.

I haven't read all of the replies, just Steve's so far and it was awesome. This is a good way to learn and grow and I have a lot of learning and growing to do. :-}}

In beginning any topic, I anchor to 1 Cor 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. and 1 Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

So even if we each came at it from a different perspective and selecting different Scripture verses to anchor that perspective, we know we have an awesome future to look forward to.

I'm going to read through the rest of the replies and glean some more awesome insights as Steve's.

I love the body of Christ and I am so grateful to be in it.

Mark

 

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Created by Juanita Jan 23, 2009 at 10:37pm. Last updated by Juanita Apr 21, 2012.

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