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Here are some question that I heard of this last weekend I thought some of you may answer these better then me.

The questions.

Why are Christian the most judgmental people IN THE WORLD?

How can people that claim to be of god lie, cheat and steal there way to wealth?(AKA TV CHRISTIANS)

Why do Christians Hate President Obama? Me I do not: I like the man, I do not agree with everything.

Also how can a Christians hate some one? This is a good question and this board has a lot of this going around.

I was in mixed company at a get together this weekend and we talked in length about many of these items. I am still remembering some more I will post them as well.

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I think you have assumptions of what it means to 'love' and what it means to 'hate'. But, I don't think your assumptions line up with what God says about love and hate. Jesus not only loves all the people who he walked with, he was LOVE in the flesh.

Yet, he called people unmarked graves. He turned tables over and drove people out with a whip. He was confrontational. He didn't soft shoe on sin - he told people that they were going to hell if they did various things. He called people liars.

So, was Jesus hateful?
1) would be interested in how judgmental is being defined...but if they mean that Christians recognize sin as sin...it is because it is truth. We can not deny the truth.
2) People of God are just that -we are people and people sin--now if we sin we know that if we confess and repent and we receive forgiveness through Jesus Christ. If we deny our sin then we are liars...we do not say that Jesus Christ approves of our sinful nature...cmon TV christians...cheap shot...I respect Charles Stanley and he's on t.v. Name those that they don't respect and have issues with...and what are the specific issues.
3) I don't know a Christian who hates Obama-most Christians I know are praying for him...they love our nation and hate some of his opinions and actions which is a lot different that hating the man...as a Christian God tells us that if we hate that is the same as murder...so if that ugly attitude rises up we do pray for each other to repent and receive forgiveness.
4) I have not seen hate on this board...that's not to say it isn't there just that I have not seen it....again specific examples would be helpful...not naming names but examples of what you perceive as hateful...perhaps it is and we need to see that and recognize it and repent.

Sounds like you had an interesting week-end- with lively dialog and that is great...one of the reasons I love America and some of the social sites is that we still have the opportunity to dialog-disagree and perhaps continue the dialog that all parties would rely on truth and not perception. Thank you for this post another opportunity for potential discussion on how we see ourselves, how we are viewed and eventually arriving at the truth of each situation.
Sometimes I don't see how what I might perceive as passionate is perceived by someone else and it is good to take a look at this...Jesus himself relied upon the word of God and so should we as Christians stand on His Word. Keeping one's opinion to oneself is difficult(at least for me) but we can always learn to communicate more effectively.
I'll take on the lie cheat and steal thing (bear in mind I am a huge grace fan, but this post is for the most part law)

First, what is sin? Is it a 10 commandment violation, is it a failure to love God, and love one's neighbor, is it falling short of God's glory, is it failing to uphold ALL of scripture both NT and OT, or just NT, or just what we pick and choose to be convenient. And lastly, are there degrees of sin. Ie, is surfing the web on company time the same as stealing a car, or is it different.

Small things have a tendency to build as well. Ie, the theft of time from an employer to web surf morphs into using office supplies for personal needs, then taking office supplies home, then cheating on expense reports, then fudging 10Q reports, then embezzlement and so on. Certainly it doesn't happen to all, but I doubt the most agregious behavior by execs at AIG was their intent when they started out etc... but this sort of stuff builds, and its real easy to be fat dumb and happy, and not even notice.

Next, small things can morph into situation ethics, another slippery slope. Ie the ends justify the means type thinking. For example, is it appropriate to steal employer time to minister to a hurting individual, rather than seeking out other ways, or even permission to do so? This one can often get ministries starting down the wrong path pretty fast. Ie, playing games with the the financials to be able to provide 2 more months of funding for missionaries. Or presenting less than full blown blatantly honest info when trying to get a loan for a new ministry building (of course, thats only if one things loans are ok, there are vast differences of opinion on that) The end result, what started out with a pure and righteous course of action, ends up buried in sin. I dont have time now, but I think there is an example of this in Ezra.

There is also the issue of growth, and the illumination of the Holy Spirit. It may be that someone young in the Lord doesn't see specific actions or inactions as sin, and then as they grow, more and more is illuminated to them. As a young guy... egads, I was horrible, but I was fully convinced I was doing the right thing, my words were back up by scripture. It was Biblical truth... well, only Biblical truth I chose, completely ignoring other areas. I'm sure I'll look back years down the road, and say the same of me today. This does not justify sin by any means, but it does explain a lot of differences between Christians. We are not all at the same place in our walk.

The thing is, repentance is available, and once sin is illuminated, obviously we should do so. However, in a large ministry setting, there is so much momentum, that even if the leaders go whoa... this is bad news, the ministries course doesn't change on a dime. Personally one can change, absolutely, organization wise it becomes exceedingly messy and their are pitfalls at every turn. Fear really builds, which then turns back into situational ethics once again, where the status quo is often maintained, rather than repentance both personally and organizationally. Ie, it is ok to continue to fudge the financials while we get the real ducks in a row... as if we dont the ministry will fail, and there will be scandals, and we will present a bad witness to the world, rather than taking the heat all at once, and asking for man's forgiveness. The light eventually does illuminate things.

By the same token, one can also be paralyzed by the fear of sinning, and do nothing or totally withdraw, which is also sin. The key is to not let that morph into situational ethics, such that wealth gaining for the kingdom becomes more important than following Christ.
This is a talll order Mike. There are a number of assumptions underlying the questions which are themselves incorrect. The questions are only problematic when considered assuming the truth of the underlying assumptions. I want to cover these in depth. But for now I am only going to state the erroneous underlying assumptions that I will in the future address, okay?

Why are Christian the most judgmental people IN THE WORLD?
The assumption made is that judging is wrong. It is not, nor can it be wrong

How can people that claim to be of god lie, cheat and steal there way to wealth?(AKA TV CHRISTIANS)
The assumption is that calling oneself a Christian makes you a Christian.

Why do Christians Hate President Obama? Me I do not: I like the man, I do not agree with everything.
The assumption is that Christians do hate Obama and that hatred is wrong.

Also how can a Christians hate some one? This is a good question and this board has a lot of this going around.
Another erroneous assumption is that God does not hate.

I will be posting on these points individually as I have the time.

Bro Cope
Hey Mike,
Were the people asking these questions saved or unsaved?

If saved, they are judgmental and in error, committing the very thing they are railing on, because Scripture says, "Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God." (1 Cor. 4:5).

If unsaved, then they themselves are speaking lies because they do not understand a true Christian because they're still aligned with satan who is the father of all lies (John 8:41-43), and satan causes people to twist the Truth out of context (2 Peter 3:15). You can see how all the Christians above responded, which is very much the opposite of what you heard this weekend.

So, may I challenge you with a question in return? How did you answer these people in light of them being either saved or unsaved?
Blessings, Dave
Head's Up, you need to capitalize G in God, unless talking about the god of this world, (little g) Satan, prince and power of the air, of which I have been rebuking all week with the storms in Tennessee. I personally am disappointed in ALL of the lousy greedy government, as I believe for the most part they are Godless people. (by their fruits you shall know them) One more Head's up: In your title use than, not then in the second word to the last.
In addition: Read II Peter chapter 2, and you will find some of the answers to your questions, Hope you can figure the answers out, as we are told in God's Word: "Foolish and unlearned question avoid," they gender strife. Your questions are NOT specific but judgemental within themselves, so try and keep the peace, if you can. You are accusing, to satisfy your ill feelings toward (AKA TV CHRISTIANS) and anyone you think ? hates Obama. Now the mixed company you were with, we don't know what or who you are talking about, but I do know if anyone, believes in live abortions they are NOT Christian. The blood of those babies will be on his hands. All things considered here, IMO it is best to stay off the subject of judgemental, as you have just done the same thing. You seem to have issues with all this, just ask God, if you are Christian? He can handle this for you, just fine, we are to let go and let God. God is Love!It is written: "He who is without sin, cast the first stone." AKA - what ever.
Let's let God decide: "Shall not the Judge of the earth, do right." Genisis 18:25
I'll take my chances with God. " If God be for us, who can be against us?" Romans 8:31
As far as Obama, you can like him if you choose, others can dislike him if they choose. You can hate what someone is doing but as believers we are to NOT hate anyone. Anytime, anyone has a problem and needs answers, the only real truth available is in God's Word, through Christ Jesus our Lord. First make Jesus Lord, otherwise you won't understand God's Word. You are in a Vicious Circle attempting to find answers, and vain is the help of man.
God Bless you and may you get peaceful with this, and go on with your life. Why? It's very simple, people come and people go, but Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

GOOD ANSWER JUANITA, I didn't read it until I answered in order to say "first thought," but you nailed it. Also great: Debrah, Ron and Bro, as it is a lot here to define, without good definition, or assumption as you put it. We are not sure which way the wind is blowing here, so it is hard to give an answer. What Debrah said, "she doesn't see hate here," neither do I.
Dear Lynne and everyone,
I very much appreciate your direct and perceptive answers. Thanks so much for your reminders to all of us regarding issues such as these.
Blessings, Dave K.
Everyone has agreed, we don't know the context of the questions, but I would like to comment on Christian judgmentalism. The most judgmental (you can interpret that as sour, disagreeable, critical and spiritually proud) Christians I know, are angry because they have set a standard of "righteousness" that they try to achieve thorough the flesh (despite religious rhetoric), rather than letting God the Holy Spirit change and mature them as He sees fit - precept upon precept, line upon line... My limited experience has indicated that most critical Christians are too proud to admit their own failures, so their critical spirit is a facade of spirituality to hide behind. You can be discerning and choose how much you let someone else influence you, without be judgmental. Judgment belongs to God alone.

Bro Cope said:
This is a talll order Mike. There are a number of assumptions underlying the questions which are themselves incorrect. The questions are only problematic when considered assuming the truth of the underlying assumptions. I want to cover these in depth. But for now I am only going to state the erroneous underlying assumptions that I will in the future address, okay?

Why are Christian the most judgmental people IN THE WORLD?
The assumption made is that judging is wrong. It is not, nor can it be wrong

How can people that claim to be of god lie, cheat and steal there way to wealth?(AKA TV CHRISTIANS)
The assumption is that calling oneself a Christian makes you a Christian.

Why do Christians Hate President Obama? Me I do not: I like the man, I do not agree with everything.
The assumption is that Christians do hate Obama and that hatred is wrong.

Also how can a Christians hate some one? This is a good question and this board has a lot of this going around.
Another erroneous assumption is that God does not hate.

I will be posting on these points individually as I have the time.

Bro Cope
Why are Christian the most judgmental people IN THE WORLD?
The assumption made is that judging is wrong. It is not, nor can it be wrong

Many Christians think that judging is wrong. This could not be farther from the truth. There are only two kinds of judging that are not allowed. The first is in Matthew 7:1-5 where it says:

Mt 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


It is clear from this context that Jesus is not talking about pine 2x4's. He is talking about sin. Notice that He does not disallow judgment. All He does is place a restriction on judgment. If you want to judge, first deal with the issue of sin in your own life. Once you have dealt with sin in your own life, you can judge another. You can see clearly to remove the mote that is in your brother's eye.

The other place is in Romans

Ro 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


In this passage, we find the Romans judging on the basis of personal preference rather than on what God has revealed as sin. There is only one law-giver, and we are not Him. Our judgments must not be based upon the mistaken belief that God's judgments are too harsh. That leads to not judging, something that God hates. A study of the judgments of Israel would show that whenever Israel would STOP judging righteously, God would turn them over to their enemies.

Neither should our judgment be based upon the mistaken notion that God's judgment is not strict enough. The conflict between the vegetarians and the meat eaters in Romans had both sides thinking that God did not go far enough in establishing His Law. He should have said something about eating meat or only vegetables.

God is always angered when out judgments wind up being a secret rejection of what He has said, and an effort to substitute our own standard to supplant His.

But for a certainty, God does not hate judgment. Is 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment

Jesus also loved judgment, as the Father loves judgment. When He upbraided the religious leaders, He upbraided them for NOT judging.

Lu 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


To His disciples he commands that we judge righteously:

Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

In fact, we must learn how to judge. We will be given the task of judging the world. How will we do that if we are not practiced in judging righteous judgment?

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?


There are over 670 references to judging in the Bible. Over and over and over again, God tells us to judge righteously.

Not Judging is a sin!

A good chapter to read concerning how God views judgment would be Is 59. In that chapter God is laying out the moral decadence of Israel. Five times in that chapter alone, God places the lack of judgment high on the list of the sins of Israel. The subject of judgment is a deeply misunderstood doctrine of the church, and I think the reason is because she does not want to be judged herself. Remember that as we judge, we will be judged. The measure we use will be used on us. But for the righteous man, that is not a problem. A righteous man does not fear being judged, because he is righteous.

Bro Cope
How can people that claim to be of god lie, cheat and steal there way to wealth?(AKA TV CHRISTIANS)
The assumption is that calling oneself a Christian makes you a Christian.

The enemy of God, who is fighting for his life, employs counterfeits of all sorts to discredit God. The most used counterfeit is the sinner who calls himself a Christian. That counterfeit is used all the time to accuse God of all kinds of evil.

What does God say is the definition of a Christian? The answer is in 1 John 3:

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God


I realize that this is a very high standard. But we have a very powerful Savior. Jesus was manifested to TAKE AWAY OUR SINS, and in Jesus there is no sin. If anyone is claiming to be a Christian, yet continuing to sin, know for sure that they are still Hell bound. A Christian repents of his sin entirely, and lays a hold of the promises of God for deliverance not from the punishment of the sins only, but mainly from the sin itself.

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.


See that??? Cease from sin in the flesh, before death. The only reason one would not be able to cease from sin is because they do not want to. If we lay a hold of the promise, and arm ourselves with the same mind as Christ as to suffering, Jesus is able to perfect us. That is what He requires you know.

Mt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Bro Cope
I do not find Christians the most judgmental people in the world. On the contrary, I find atheists much more judgmental and oppressive. Basically it's the agnostics and atheists who SAY Christians are judgmental. I was the daughter of agnostics who went to church from time to time and it was in church I found the nicest most gentle people and how nice the folks in church were eventually led me to Jesus. Christians are not perfect (far from it) but in my opinion they sure beat atheists and agnostics by a country mile as far as being nice and friendly and loving...

In answer to "hating someone" if you mean hating like a politician, I think you are taking their words too literally... disliking the person's policies is an observation and a decision we all have to make.

I had a disagreement with the owner here but she (like all the Christians I've ever worked with) easily worked it out because she IS loving and forgiving. Trust me I've been on listserves where you merely MENTION you are a Christian and WHILE telling you how hateful Christians are, the agnostics and atheists jump all over you...
>>>>>Christians killed 5 million people in 2000 years.

Atheists killed 165 million people in the 80 years between 1917 and 1997

Who is more dangerous?

Mitch Pacqua SJ

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