KingdomInsight

Creating a Learning Network for Kingdom Builders!

The birds are back.   Migration is in full swing.  Ducks, geese, gulls, blackbirds, a swan, and even a killdeere once again abound on the local swamp.  I wonder how do they know it is time to go?  How do they know they won't get caught in freak storm?  I wonder did God give them the instincts to know when to leave and where to go?  Did He deisign them to just know how to find their way? 

Views: 25

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

 

Not so in my area. 

 

 

 They don't know they won't get caught in a freak storm. I do know migration has been moving earlier as the earth warms up. Bugs hatch earlier, if the mommy bird wants to feed her babies she has to have them earlier.

 

It is all part of the ugly thing called evolution.

Hmm.... our wise Lord has not designed his creatures to adapt to changing conditions like warm weather?

We have had the snowiest March in years.  It mostly doesn't look like spring yet.  I'm not convinced that we won't have a least one or two more snow storms.  The birds however are singing for their mates.  The nearby swamp is once again alive with the calls of blackbirds, woodcock, ducks, geese, and even a kildeere.  

 

Could it be that those bugs have been created to respond to temperature not daylength?   Explain to me how such  things as temperture and light responses in plants or animals could have evolved. 

 Hello Lisa,

 Hope things are well with you.

 

 I not sure what part of the country you live in. I live in the mountains of Colorado and awoke to about 3 inches of new snow with more coming down. Not uncommon here to get snow in June even July. We have not seen a return of any birds yet this year. O-sure there are a few ducks and geese around but they stayed all winter.That is normal but why would God have these birds stay? As a large part of them never make it to spring.

 

 So far birds who's migration is short (up and down east coast) are doing fine,it is the birds who's migration is much longer like wintering in South America are not changing and may go the way of the dodo bird if globe warming continue.

 

 I do not know where to start on  evolution in plants and animals. It is easy to see whats happening to these plants and animals as the earth warms. Not only are bird migrations changing the birds,plants and bugs are also moving farther north and or higher in elevations in search of cooler temperatures  and, if they are unable to do so quickly enough, could perish.

 On another front, tropical diseases carried by bugs are also moving north as the earth warms there range grows. Soon malaria will be killing Americans living in the states as the mosquitoes that carry the malaria parasite expand their range. Won't that be special? I can see it already Pat Robertson will be on the air blaming atheist for the spread of malaria.

 

 So while we are thanking god for the for all the pretty stuff we need to not forget that God also gave us 1000's of parasites and other nasties that kill and or cripple humans. 

 

 Fact is 95% of all the species that have ever lived have gone extinct, weather plant animal or bug.

Lisa said:

Hmm.... our wise Lord has not designed his creatures to adapt to changing conditions like warm weather?

We have had the snowiest March in years.  It mostly doesn't look like spring yet.  I'm not convinced that we won't have a least one or two more snow storms.  The birds however are singing for their mates.  The nearby swamp is once again alive with the calls of blackbirds, woodcock, ducks, geese, and even a kildeere.  

 

Could it be that those bugs have been created to respond to temperature not daylength?   Explain to me how such  things as temperture and light responses in plants or animals could have evolved. 

I live in the east.  Right now we are having an unseansonably warm sunny day making it look and feel like spring.  Some hardy kids were wearing shorts yesterday.  I thought it still a bit cold.   Hopefully enough snow has melted that there won't be a flood out back.  I hear too much water can cause problems with downstairs septic.

Top elevation here is 2200 and that only in a few places.  Low elevation is roughly 1000  I'm sure that is far different than what you have in Colorado...Rockies right?  I took part in a class that went to Newfoundland once.  We celebrated the fouth of July up there while walking around snow pack that might not melt and putting heated rocks in sleeping bags to stay warm at night.  The elevation was low but we were so far north that it stayed cold. 

Went over the Cascades once in July.  We went through the past only a week or two after it was fully opened.  The guy in the little store at the bottom was still warning us to watch for falling rock.   A Christian would say that God did not create the parasites etc.  They came in after that incident in genesis where the talking serpent or whatever it was (Satan really) conviced Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge.  I don't see critters, birds and bugs moveing to cooler climes as evolution.  THat is more like moving with conditions to save ones own hide.  The ones that linger may demonstrate survival of the fittest with on the heat tolerant making it.  However it will just be a heat tolerant mayfly or junco...not a snake to a bird thing like evolution teaches. 

 

Hmm...Global warming?  Is that manmade like they claim?  Is it maybe a natural cycle of the earth.  We have been warming since the last ice age went out.  If you're not convinced ask a geography prof.  This warming trend and resulting melt is why we were in Newfoundland studying empty glacial valllies and other left over evidence of glaciers.  I can see evidence of the same here but latter errosion makes it hard to see.  Newfoundland and likely your Colorado mountains show much more pronounced evidence.

 

I trust you will dig around and get back to me on the evolution related to temperature sensitivity...or maybe I'll just create some semi-plausible bull excrement.

 

   Yes the elevation  in Colorado is a little higher then out east. I live at 6500 feet The lowest  point in Colorado is the Arkansas River at 3315 feet above sea level.The highest is the summit of Mount Elbert at 14440 feet. Most of the high mountains have snow on them year round. 

 

 Hmm, interesting, God did not create all the nasty little parasites, bacteria or viruses. That would mean that the Devil has the power of creation.Right? Was it not God that took man kinds long life away at this time? Animals before the fall were all plant eaters but after many became meat eaters. Who did that God or the Devil.

Makes more sense if God made all those nasty things as a way to shorten our lives to less then 120 years as the Bible says don't ya think?

 

I happen to agree with you that animals moving because of changing temps is a surviver thing. If the temp stay far below normal for many years it very well could cause entire animal/plant species to become extinct. Think ice ages. Just as the end of the last ice age brought an end to the mammoth as forests replaced open woodlands and grasslands across the continent.

 I did not think you would be much for ice ages,as the last glacial period started about 2.3 million years ago and  ended about 10,000 years ago. That being older then the earth would be a problem for you.Thats not counting the ice ages that came before. At least five major ice ages in the Earth's past, first one like 2.4 billion years ago.

 

 The glacier of the last ice age did not make it down to the mountains of Colorado. There were local glacier in that time but not much evidence left as they did not move much. Colorado was covered over by them.

 

 Wow you seem to jump from the earth being young to being very old  depending on what your talking about.

 What is happen now has happened before. As the earth warms our oceans Ph drops (turning to acid) the water can't hold on to oxygen leading to mass extinction in the worlds seas that spreads to land.  It is part of the earths carbon cycle. Good chance humans are speeding this up. Ask your geography prof.

 

 Go on and make stuff up, who knows it could led to a job at Institute for Creation Research or the Creation Museum.

Lisa said:

I live in the east.  Right now we are having an unseansonably warm sunny day making it look and feel like spring.  Some hardy kids were wearing shorts yesterday.  I thought it still a bit cold.   Hopefully enough snow has melted that there won't be a flood out back.  I hear too much water can cause problems with downstairs septic.

Top elevation here is 2200 and that only in a few places.  Low elevation is roughly 1000  I'm sure that is far different than what you have in Colorado...Rockies right?  I took part in a class that went to Newfoundland once.  We celebrated the fouth of July up there while walking around snow pack that might not melt and putting heated rocks in sleeping bags to stay warm at night.  The elevation was low but we were so far north that it stayed cold. 

Went over the Cascades once in July.  We went through the past only a week or two after it was fully opened.  The guy in the little store at the bottom was still warning us to watch for falling rock.   A Christian would say that God did not create the parasites etc.  They came in after that incident in genesis where the talking serpent or whatever it was (Satan really) conviced Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge.  I don't see critters, birds and bugs moveing to cooler climes as evolution.  THat is more like moving with conditions to save ones own hide.  The ones that linger may demonstrate survival of the fittest with on the heat tolerant making it.  However it will just be a heat tolerant mayfly or junco...not a snake to a bird thing like evolution teaches. 

 

Hmm...Global warming?  Is that manmade like they claim?  Is it maybe a natural cycle of the earth.  We have been warming since the last ice age went out.  If you're not convinced ask a geography prof.  This warming trend and resulting melt is why we were in Newfoundland studying empty glacial valllies and other left over evidence of glaciers.  I can see evidence of the same here but latter errosion makes it hard to see.  Newfoundland and likely your Colorado mountains show much more pronounced evidence.

 

I trust you will dig around and get back to me on the evolution related to temperature sensitivity...or maybe I'll just create some semi-plausible bull excrement.

 

Ahh... It looks like a sharp eyed, thinking reader has caught me on several points.

 Let me clarify: Only God creates.  When Eve ate whatever that fruit was death entered the world.  With death came the meat eaters, parasites, disease etc.  How things that didn't eat meat began to do so I do not know.  Maybe eating the fruit released something that turned on an already existing DNA pathway.  IE the potential was there when life was first created but it wasn't turned on until after eating the fruit of the tree of knowlege.

The years of a man were not 120 until after the flood.  Before that the Bible records people living for hundreds of years...as I recall a few were having children at 300-400 years.   Since death entered before the flood, limiting life spans can not be why the parasites etc.   Could it be that the changed enviroment post flood contained stresses and even chemical dynamics (free radiscals or something) not present before the flood?

 

I'm convinced the ice age happend.  Glacial evidence is common and quite easily seen and believed.   I'm not convinced that the ice age was a long ago as is commonly thought.    The flood contained a lot of water. (understatement of the century.)  The all over tropical climate that existed before the flood was now gone.  Instead we now have conditions with climate zones, and the poles always cold.     Land that was already on the poles or somehow moved there was covered by water.  The poles are very cold and were at one time colder than now.   When it gets very cold even sea water freezes.   Huge amounts of frozen water would create huge ice blocks and since ice expands the glaciers happen.   The dynamics are the same for both of use ...we just disagree on the timing.

 

I thought it was you making stuff up so you could work for the mainstream...   Seriously I want to see if you can up with an evolutionary demonstration of temp.  response. 

Hi Lisa and James,

You two have a nice exchange going. Kudos. [I think or at least I hope that means, nice going. ;-))]

Just wanted to add something to did God create those nasty things like parasites... All computers are context driven. The context came from the Engineer[s] who used Integration of thought to application or purpose. But computers use "If" arguments. If you do this, that will happen and if you do that, this will happen [Variables through gated transitors] so even though the context is from the Engineer, the choice of outcomes is determined by the user.

You two are doing great,

Have a great day!

Makrk

 Sounds like your saying that God did make all those nasty little things. That god used evolution to do it. I always found the bible story of  Eve eating the forbidden fruit as a set up by God. After all he knew what was going to happen before he ever created anything. Right?  All God had to do was place the tree  in say California. Problem solved. 

 

 All those predators with big sharp teeth eating veggies is silly. Cats can't even live on a veggie diet,there bodies can't make the missing amino acids from plant proteins like humans and dogs can.

 Thing is there was not an ice age there were ice ages,at least 5 of them. With at least five major mass extinctions events.

 

Continents move by means of plate tectonics and  are still moving today.A great place to see this is the Matterhorn mountain in Switzerland. The top of the mountain is a piece of the African continent plate the base is made of much younger sedimentary rocks.

http://www.danstopicals.com/matterhorn.htm

 I do have an advantage have billions of years to fit all the ice ages and mass extinctions events in a time line, along with the extinction of over 95% of everything that has ever lived. 
 I can agree that the earths climate changes from being nearly an ice ball to ice free.I guess you believe it has happened once where as I believe it has happen many times. Every time the earth warmed new life forms showed up,every time it grew cold life forms became extinct. That is the simplest answer to how temperature change drives evolution.
  There is no world wide flood in mine time line. Where o where could all that water have gone?
 Plus thriving culture all around the earth seem to have carried on life without even knowing they were living under water.Odd...
 
 LOL, I am no scientist,I did not even finish high school. I got my GED years after dropping out of school and later my employer paid me to go to school. I ended up with an associate in applied science degree and I am a journeyman in three fields of power generation. Not to bad for a high school drop out.
 

Lisa said:

Ahh... It looks like a sharp eyed, thinking reader has caught me on several points.

 Let me clarify: Only God creates.  When Eve ate whatever that fruit was death entered the world.  With death came the meat eaters, parasites, disease etc.  How things that didn't eat meat began to do so I do not know.  Maybe eating the fruit released something that turned on an already existing DNA pathway.  IE the potential was there when life was first created but it wasn't turned on until after eating the fruit of the tree of knowlege.

 

 

The years of a man were not 120 until after the flood.  Before that the Bible records people living for hundreds of years...as I recall a few were having children at 300-400 years.   Since death entered before the flood, limiting life spans can not be why the parasites etc.   Could it be that the changed enviroment post flood contained stresses and even chemical dynamics (free radiscals or something) not present before the flood?

 

I'm convinced the ice age happend.  Glacial evidence is common and quite easily seen and believed.   I'm not convinced that the ice age was a long ago as is commonly thought.    The flood contained a lot of water. (understatement of the century.)  The all over tropical climate that existed before the flood was now gone.  Instead we now have conditions with climate zones, and the poles always cold.     Land that was already on the poles or somehow moved there was covered by water.  The poles are very cold and were at one time colder than now.   When it gets very cold even sea water freezes.   Huge amounts of frozen water would create huge ice blocks and since ice expands the glaciers happen.   The dynamics are the same for both of use ...we just disagree on the timing.

 

I thought it was you making stuff up so you could work for the mainstream...   Seriously I want to see if you can up with an evolutionary demonstration of temp.  response. 

Hi James,

Sometimes you sound like Jekell/Hyde. I have to ask...am I talking to James or the demon miming James to bait me? I know you are more intelligent than you let on. Rewards or consequences of choice means there are more than one outcome built into the equation.

It is so all right with me if you want to follow around or even join in with a bunch of Sophists strutting like they were eye witnesses, but I will continue to seek the Lord and ask the Author how He did things. My papers are posted and you know where the links are, just like I know where the links you have posted. I have no interest in reading your links and you have no interest in reading mine. My links are really for those searching for answers. You have anchored to yours and I have anchored to mine.

The difference is in our day to day lives, I talk to the Lord in the good times and in the bad. I have someone to go to 24/7. I know in my spirit, that the Book of Proverbs says what it means and means what it says. It is in my best interest to pay attention.

The Flood wasn't merely a 40 day rain, it was a major cataclysm. But you know the story...probably better than I do.

But honestly James, I am now more interested in living and pursuing a Christian life than pondering on the Lord's past mysteries. I will know the rest soon enough and judging by the signs of the times, it may be very soon.

You are always in my prayers>my morning kneeling prayer and my daily walking prayers. God's got your number...:-))

Have a great day, James.

Your friend and future Brother in Christ,

Mark

 

 

 

Hi James,

It's me again. :-)) It just dawned on me. Sometimes I am slooow. But I told you that at the beginning of our conversations, remember?

The question on the floor is "How" did that change from the fall come about? In computers, it's done through gated circuits-And,Or,Nor gates, MOSFET field effect transistors running context driven if arguments turning pixels on and off creating a virtual reality inside of a static structure. It is variable driven. I have never made your connection because it is context driven analytics.

In the fall, the change was a one time event. The curse was/is not constant change. It can't be because the context is written in the integrated whole. The genetic data base-the DNA does not code for protein. Extraction/Transcription/Fold are predetermined. The interdependencies of the receptor sites are predetermined. The amino acids must be supplied by the plant kingdom-external, yet the interdependencies are required for it to work.

I get emails from health ezines that talk about calcium channels, sodium channels, transports, precursors to function specific enzymes and etc. that sound more like the interdependencies of a computing environment.

The context that drives it all is from the big window. Context Driven Interdependencies enabling an environment to function and purpose. Estrogen is a regulated hormone in both male and female. But BPA released from resins in plastics mimics estrogen creating estrogen dominance-unregulated estrogen creating environments that are out of balance. All systems are still in place. Nothing is changing, just accelerating or deteriorating.

It's Intelligent Design, James. Logical, Comprehensible and predetermined. It is natural for a bee to sting if provoked, but it is also natural for Windows to load when we turn on a PC. They are customarily accepted or expected, because they are predetermined, as per instruction; deterministic or by design.

I can use the intelligence God gave me to learn from Him or attempt to challenge Him, my choice. But the only one it affects is me.

One can pound the evolution gavel while the world is starving and going to hell. I want to use my time to encourage, to lift up, to make someone's day a little better, to somehow make my being here of value.

I do love you, James. Agape love. I want you to have a good life and look forward to sharing with you in eternity. You are very intelligent and could do a whole lot of good to a lost and dying world.

But our bottom line is, yours and mine, God doesn't need us, we need Him. If we don't want to do what He has for us to do, He will raise up someone else and it will get done, but we will lose our reward. If there will be any regret in Heaven, it will be that. Our rewards could have been greater for just a little more investment.

The ant will go on being the ant and all of my philosophical meandering won't change that. My time will be better spent praying or "How can I help?"

What I am trying to learn to do and I am not there yet, but what I am reaching for is not to respond to your initial tone, but to use our conversations as a platform to bring Glory to the Most High, to encourage someone who may be reading and to make it more than just tit for tat.

Pray with me, will you? Thanks.

Mark

 

 

 

  Hey Mark,

 As I don't believe in good or evil super-nature beings I guess the only fair thing to say is your talking to an animal. What can I say, I read ALOT. Plus,half of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at. I really don't know what I've said lately to be called Mr.Hyde.

 

 I have read every word of the papers you posted. 

 

 Ya know I do believe that the Bible has real history in it. It is only the super-nature stuff where I draw the line.

I also believe there is much old world wisdom contained in the Bibles pages. At the time of its writing large parts of the world were unknown. I big bad local flood would have seemed to cover the whole of the earth.Most biblical scholars believe the flood in the bible was local not world wide. 

You have a great day too.

 

 Your mammal animal brother James

 

 

 Read more and you would know we are living in the most peaceful time in history.Crazy as that sounds it is true.

http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi James,

Sometimes you sound like Jekell/Hyde. I have to ask...am I talking to James or the demon miming James to bait me? I know you are more intelligent than you let on. Rewards or consequences of choice means there are more than one outcome built into the equation.

It is so all right with me if you want to follow around or even join in with a bunch of Sophists strutting like they were eye witnesses, but I will continue to seek the Lord and ask the Author how He did things. My papers are posted and you know where the links are, just like I know where the links you have posted. I have no interest in reading your links and you have no interest in reading mine. My links are really for those searching for answers. You have anchored to yours and I have anchored to mine.

The difference is in our day to day lives, I talk to the Lord in the good times and in the bad. I have someone to go to 24/7. I know in my spirit, that the Book of Proverbs says what it means and means what it says. It is in my best interest to pay attention.

The Flood wasn't merely a 40 day rain, it was a major cataclysm. But you know the story...probably better than I do.

But honestly James, I am now more interested in living and pursuing a Christian life than pondering on the Lord's past mysteries. I will know the rest soon enough and judging by the signs of the times, it may be very soon.

You are always in my prayers>my morning kneeling prayer and my daily walking prayers. God's got your number...:-))

Have a great day, James.

Your friend and future Brother in Christ,

Mark

 

 

 

Hi James,

Thanks for taking something stupid I said and turning it into something humorous. I really, really appreciate it. I just have some more junk to get out. Thanks for being patient with me and helping me get it our.

I am at a total loss sometimes in how to share with you even though I really do like you as a friend and love you as a person. But I will just keep praying..

One of the things our posts point out is transmitting and receiving. At least from my side. You transmit one thing and I receive another. But anything worth having is worth working at, so as long as you are willing to be patient with me, I am more than willing to keep working on it.

I should give you encouragement. If God will work with me as disfunctional as I seem to be sometimes, He will welcome you with open arms. Of course we both know He will anyway.

My mammal brother, my sibling. That's funny, I needed that. Thanks for giving our conversations a breath of fresh air. I appreciate it. But I am going to continue to call you my Brother in Christ. Speaking things that are not now as though they were.

Jesus took two guys that approach everything from completely opposite directions and brought us together through Juanita's wonderful Kingdom Insight. I saw a movie like that once. I think it was Hayley Mills playing twins. Two girls in a camp that didn't get along very well, they locked them in a room until they became best of friends. Have you ever used Google as a spell checker? I just used it to learn how to spell Hayley.

Have a great rest of the weekend, James,

Your friend and Brother in Christ,

Mark

 

Reply to Discussion

RSS

Latest Activity

Juanita and Pascal Musore are now friends
Jul 13
Pascal Musore posted a status
"Lets change our world"
Jul 4
Pascal Musore posted a status
"Prayer that you have made acquaintances with the project, for more information or questions, write to me I am at your disposal"
Jul 4
Pascal Musore posted a status
"electricity in Africa and around the world, we already have several projects that are in progress, we lack some support from you"
Jul 4
Pascal Musore posted a status
"People from around the world, I come to you to talk about my humanitarian association which aims to fight against famines, no drinking water"
Jul 4
Ginny Reid Radtke replied to Juanita's discussion Chapter 3. Not my job. in the group 2019 Review of The Seed - Pre-Publication
"What a thought provoking chapter! Interesting that change is only possible if there is hope; Yes I…"
Jun 20
James Bartlett joined Juanita's group
Thumbnail

Prayer. Learning to be Intentional.

This is a Call to Prayer!When God intends to move, He calls us to prayer.  He is calling.  Let's be…See More
Jun 18
Ginny Reid Radtke joined Juanita's group
Thumbnail

2019 Review of The Seed - Pre-Publication

People are confused.   We know how to 'do church'.  Church happens every Sunday morning.   How do…See More
Jun 16
Michael is now a member of KingdomInsight
Jun 15
Ginny Reid Radtke and Juanita are now friends
Jun 14
James Bartlett replied to Juanita's discussion Preface - The Seed 2019 Pre-Launch in the group 2019 Review of The Seed - Pre-Publication
"A "Church" House, Building, Temple, etc. is the House of the Lord, it is a place we come…"
Jun 11
James Bartlett liked Juanita's discussion Preface - The Seed 2019 Pre-Launch
Jun 11
James Bartlett joined Juanita's group
Thumbnail

2019 Review of The Seed - Pre-Publication

People are confused.   We know how to 'do church'.  Church happens every Sunday morning.   How do…See More
Jun 11
James Bartlett and Robert H Patrick are now friends
Jun 11
Profile IconGinny Reid Radtke, James Pollard, Tom Christensen and 2 more joined KingdomInsight
Jun 8
Juanita's group was featured
Thumbnail

2019 Review of The Seed - Pre-Publication

People are confused.   We know how to 'do church'.  Church happens every Sunday morning.   How do…See More
Jun 8
James Bartlett posted a discussion

The next Closer Walk Bible Study

The next Closer Walk Bible Study (Conference Call) will be tomorrow at 8 am EST. On Wednesday…See More
May 6

© 2019   Created by Juanita.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service