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The birds are back.   Migration is in full swing.  Ducks, geese, gulls, blackbirds, a swan, and even a killdeere once again abound on the local swamp.  I wonder how do they know it is time to go?  How do they know they won't get caught in freak storm?  I wonder did God give them the instincts to know when to leave and where to go?  Did He deisign them to just know how to find their way? 

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James, 

  I am aware there are/were multiple ice ages.  I hadn't though much about how they fit into the young earth time line....who says it has to be 6000 years.   Let's ponder a minute and say 6,000 years are correct.  Let's also ponder could it work if the dating system is wrong and ice ages were much shorter than assumed.   Let's say the ice ages were only 100 years long or even 50.  I'm thinking a hundred would be more likely...with mayba a 100 years break between them.  That would take just a 1000 years and I think leave plenty of time for the rest of BC and the coming of Christ.  The Bible records people groups at latitudes roughly equal to Cuba and Central Mexico.  These places would have still been warm and quite comfortable to live in.   That could explain why it does not record complaints of intense cold. 

   I understand plate tectonics.  That could possbly explain why the climate was always tropical.  It also explains why we have been having earthquakes all around the pacific, a bunch of valcano's, ocean trenches, and the mountain ranges we call home.  Back to the tropical climate... I think more than plate tectonics are at work here.    It is generally assumed there was no rain before the flood.  The rains lasted 40 days and 40 nights.  

It also says that the floodgates of heaven and the springs of the great deep were openend.   There area will have flooded places after just a day of heavy rain, especially if coupled with snow melt.   A fall huricane is equally able to mess us up.  Seems like 40 days would be enough to cause catestrophic damage.   While we are at it, if there was no flood why does nearly every culture have a flood story?    Springs of the deep...what could they be?  Some believe this is where plate tectonics come in.  I'd have to review the details but think the tough it also that there was water underneath.   So you open up the springs of the deep and water comes forth.  Meanwhile something has caused a climate change causing it to rain like never before...if it even rained at all before.  My Bible (Gen 7, NIV) is unclear.  Many teach that there was no rain before the flood.   That of course floods the earth but plate tectonics keeps moving things around.   This movement would have to be at a much greater rate than previously assumed.  Is that so far fetched?   The plate movement spreads the continents around assuming Gondwanaland did indeed exist.    Previously Gondwanaland was surrounded by water and formed one big blob.  Now it is broken up in pieces and there are deep trenched between the pieces we now recognize as continents.   Water could flow into those trenches...that takes care of where some of the water went.  Meanwhile the heat of the valcanoes that erupted as the crust thined and seperated would evaporate water.  That gets rid of more water.   Evaporation has a cooling affect.  The evaporated water rises into the atmosphere.  As the air thins it cools this is coupled with the cooling effect of evaporation itself.  Cooled evaproated water(normally called steam, we see it on clouds or fog) turns back into water gets to heavy and falls back to earth in the form of rain.  We call this the water cycle.  The large cooling effect of this massive evaporation could cause the deep cooling that led to the ice ages.  Come up with a reason for the repeating of the cycle and you  get numerous ice ages.

 

Intelligence has litle to do with high school placements or future success.  Some of the most intelligent drop out because it was boring.  Others are have learning disabilities that make traditional schooling methods difficult for them.  They get disgusted and drop out.  The adult world allows more variety and succeed.  Thinking of my own HS class, there are members who society would consider more successful than the valedictorian and runner up.   One of the smartest people I've ever met never finished school because his dad died and he had to go to work.  I am pretty sure that another couldn't read but it took only a short conversation to discover that he was quite intelligent, knew of and could retain many things. 

PS where is that evolution scenario?

Mark, I like your if/then comment.  Took a little bit of fortran and basic, it was outdated when I took it.  Had forgetten the statement pattern.  Thanks for the reminder.   Is it so far fetched that man might learn to use in computers a design pattern very similar to the one the Creator used in the first place to create life?  After all certain natural laws are laws and never changer.  Maybe some of what we use in computer design/programming are natural laws that are not yet considered such.  Could this be why computers can be and are refered to aritficial intelgence when programmed in a certain way?

So to both my mammal brothers and Brothers in Christ have a great day!

Lisa

PS Now if my fingers weren't dislexic while typing I wouldn't need a spell checker nearly so much.  I'mfeeling lzy though so you will have to sort out any mistakes for yourselves.

Hi James,

It's going to be a great day! I went and did my laundry and then got a blank sheet of typing paper and wrote A Soft Answer... and taped it to the bottom of my monitor.

You were talking about a GED, I think you could have been anything you wanted to be. So I wanted to open up that discussion you were having about a guy comparing the DNA of rats and people. He could very well be a Christian. We can be a Christian and be wrong. I am wrong all the time.

The question is will his conclusions stand up under cross-examination. For me, I know that God's Word and God's Creation never conflict. "I am not a man that I should lie." So that is my foundation.

When looking at what the DNA of a rat built and the DNA of what a man built, it is readily visible that we are missing something. That something is context.

When I troubleshoot a piece of equiptment, I never count the number of red wires, blue wires and brown wires in a bundle. I get out the schematic.

The genetic data base is just a data base. The double helix is a container for digital addresses. When a cell receptor site triggers the cell ribosomal complex to build a messenger RNA template, that template is going to go into the nucleus, the double helix is going to unfold and the messenger RNA template is going to extract three digit codes from specific digital addresses to create a linear sequence of codes that will line up along side the cell wall and extract a linear sequence of amino acids from the blood stream that will fold into a three dimensional shape that will be sealed by an enzyme and become the protein requested by the cell receptor site. The context is embedded in the interdependencies that enable the environment to its function and purpose. Random change causes deterioration, The Law of entropy.

I have no background in biology. Someone with a background in biology understanding the context driving intedependencies of integration could easily extract the cause of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, the neuro-toxic dysfunctions and etc.

A nuclear physicist in good standing and doing good work tried to post papers in the Academic Arena and was ostracized. Not because of his work, but because of the implications of his work.

The is a war going on in the unseen realm between the kingdom of darkness and the Kingdom of Light and everything we are witnessing is the spillage of that war.

We choose a narrative to interpret the data as evidence for the narrative. I am anchored to the narrative of Scripture, Creation and Intelligent Design. Another is anchored to the narrative of evolution because with it, they believe they can ignore God.

Both narratives have very real rewards or consequences. I will never develop cancer, because I know its cause and I know its cure.

God takes me to His woodshed all the time, because "The son that I love, I chastise...I correct him for his good and My Glory." It is in my best interest to pay attention.

This is so much more than a difference of opinion or belief. I want to know that which is right for my own good, both now and in eternity.

I love you, James. You are my friend and my Brother in Christ. The power of life and death is in the tongue, so I am going to speak life in your life.

Always and Forever,

Mark

 

 

 

Hi Lisa,

You were typing while I was typing but since I'm sure you type faster than me, after I closed and went to my inbox and there was a reply from Lisa. Yes!

That was a great reply.

To my mammal sister and Sister in Christ,

Mark

Opps I messed up.  The original continent was pangea.  Later it seperated a bit and we got Gondwanaland...southern pangea and laurasia nothern pangea.  I'm sure you'll still have fun with what I wronte.

Lisa



Lisa said:

James, 

  I am aware there are/were multiple ice ages.  I hadn't though much about how they fit into the young earth time line....who says it has to be 6000 years.   Let's ponder a minute and say 6,000 years are correct.  Let's also ponder could it work if the dating system is wrong and ice ages were much shorter than assumed.   Let's say the ice ages were only 100 years long or even 50.  I'm thinking a hundred would be more likely...with mayba a 100 years break between them.  That would take just a 1000 years and I think leave plenty of time for the rest of BC and the coming of Christ.  The Bible records people groups at latitudes roughly equal to Cuba and Central Mexico.  These places would have still been warm and quite comfortable to live in.   That could explain why it does not record complaints of intense cold. 

 James said:

 So you want to have ices ages built a couple miles deep ice sheet in 100 years. I guess the front of these ice sheets would move south at a good clip to move thousands of miles in 100 years. Then retreat just as quickly. No that wont work.

 

 

 

   I understand plate tectonics.  That could possbly explain why the climate was always tropical.  It also explains why we have been having earthquakes all around the pacific, a bunch of valcano's, ocean trenches, and the mountain ranges we call home.  Back to the tropical climate... I think more than plate tectonics are at work here.    It is generally assumed there was no rain before the flood.  The rains lasted 40 days and 40 nights.  

James said: O ya think so? I'd like to hear how plate tectonics would make the climate always tropical. Why is the earth not all tropical now? Plate tectonics is still with us today. Are you going to say that way back then (6000 years ago) the plates were moving around at the speed of sound and all the friction was what was keeping the climate so tropical? 

 

 Yap, no rain before the flood is what the bible says. I guess before the flood there was no evaporation either. How did the human body cool off before the flood without evaporation? Could not have been any clouds or lighting or nitrogen for plants because that is made by lighting. 

 

 

It also says that the floodgates of heaven and the springs of the great deep were openend. 

 Yes, that would be the flood gates in the filament ( steel dome that covers the flat earth)

 

 

  There area will have flooded places after just a day of heavy rain, especially if coupled with snow melt.   A fall huricane is equally able to mess us up.  Seems like 40 days would be enough to cause catestrophic damage.   While we are at it, if there was no flood why does nearly every culture have a flood story? 

. Same reason that every culture made up Gods to explain things they could not understand. Every culture had local floods that the simple people of the time did not understand.

 

  I am out of time.I will try to get back to this and finish later

   Springs of the deep...what could they be?  Some believe this is where plate tectonics come in.  I'd have to review the details but think the tough it also that there was water underneath.   So you open up the springs of the deep and water comes forth.  Meanwhile something has caused a climate change causing it to rain like never before...if it even rained at all before.  My Bible (Gen 7, NIV) is unclear.  Many teach that there was no rain before the flood.   That of course floods the earth but plate tectonics keeps moving things around.   This movement would have to be at a much greater rate than previously assumed.  Is that so far fetched?   The plate movement spreads the continents around assuming Gondwanaland did indeed exist.    Previously Gondwanaland was surrounded by water and formed one big blob.  Now it is broken up in pieces and there are deep trenched between the pieces we now recognize as continents.   Water could flow into those trenches...that takes care of where some of the water went.  Meanwhile the heat of the valcanoes that erupted as the crust thined and seperated would evaporate water.  That gets rid of more water.   Evaporation has a cooling affect.  The evaporated water rises into the atmosphere.  As the air thins it cools this is coupled with the cooling effect of evaporation itself.  Cooled evaproated water(normally called steam, we see it on clouds or fog) turns back into water gets to heavy and falls back to earth in the form of rain.  We call this the water cycle.  The large cooling effect of this massive evaporation could cause the deep cooling that led to the ice ages.  Come up with a reason for the repeating of the cycle and you  get numerous ice ages.

 

Intelligence has litle to do with high school placements or future success.  Some of the most intelligent drop out because it was boring.  Others are have learning disabilities that make traditional schooling methods difficult for them.  They get disgusted and drop out.  The adult world allows more variety and succeed.  Thinking of my own HS class, there are members who society would consider more successful than the valedictorian and runner up.   One of the smartest people I've ever met never finished school because his dad died and he had to go to work.  I am pretty sure that another couldn't read but it took only a short conversation to discover that he was quite intelligent, knew of and could retain many things. 

PS where is that evolution scenario?

Mark, I like your if/then comment.  Took a little bit of fortran and basic, it was outdated when I took it.  Had forgetten the statement pattern.  Thanks for the reminder.   Is it so far fetched that man might learn to use in computers a design pattern very similar to the one the Creator used in the first place to create life?  After all certain natural laws are laws and never changer.  Maybe some of what we use in computer design/programming are natural laws that are not yet considered such.  Could this be why computers can be and are refered to aritficial intelgence when programmed in a certain way?

So to both my mammal brothers and Brothers in Christ have a great day!

Lisa

PS Now if my fingers weren't dislexic while typing I wouldn't need a spell checker nearly so much.  I'mfeeling lzy though so you will have to sort out any mistakes for yourselves.

okay I'm back,

 

I gotta say,I get a big kick out of the new post endings going on.  "" mammal brother" ah i think I'm blashing!!!

 

Ya know Lisa, (every in the Kingdom Community) Okay this is from my heart.

 

I am great with facts, it is the "feelings" Well telling people my feelings,putting them in words thats hard.I have always been that way,pissed my mother off.

 

We all have questions,Why Are We Here: What Is My Purpose In Life-What Is My Goal In Life.Ya know like that.I'm pretty happy at where I am with those questions.But mine --

 

Do people that believe in creation theory think atheist are out to destroy God? Could a mod of Christians take atheist out to the town square an burn them at the stake again if there numbers grew to be in a mass majority?How come so many people in this country go to bed hungry in this the richest country in the world.How could any Christian let a sick baby die because it's parents can pay for a doctor be against nation health care? Thats what I want to know...

 

 I did not come here to threaten anyones faith.Far from it. It is literal interpretation of the bible thats got me hooked.I can't figure you people out.That sounds mean,I know.Sorry I don't want to be thought of as being that way,but thats the just of it.

 

I don't understand how parts of the Bible are taken very literal but other are,well stretched from my point of view.Take spherical earth vs flat earth verses or sexism in the Bible for examples.

 

Lisa,if you still want me to I will finish what I started above, like I said I am good with facts.I've got two hundred years plus of the greatest minds in history to back me up and I read wayyyy to much.For now I think I've said enough.Time for a few days off...

 

 So to both my mammal brothers and sisters I will take my leave.Have a great day,I'm off to bed.Good night.

James:)

Wow it sounds like I sure bumped a nerve or something. 

No I wouldn't burn you at a stake or whatever for being an atheist.   I quite enjoy having someone challenge the problems with creation theory.  I haven't studied it deeply.   You aren't challenging my faith.  You are challenging my understanding of science from another angel.  There is value in that.  I'm kind of thinking out loud here anyway.

What I presented above is an off the cuff from memory repeat of a seminar I went too, mixed with what I know of science and some guesses of my own.  

Suspect some of the interpretations of the Bible I have been taught are in ere (long story) and still trying to work some things out for myself.  

 

Thanks for your comment on the ice sheets.  You pointed out something I hadn't thought about.   Didn't I say something about creating some bull excrement the other day.  I bet that you think I just did a really good job of it.

Plate tectonics would not make the climate always tropical.  You are right.  I think that could possibly explain continents moving farther from the tropics and therefore experiencing more cold.   Though when I think about it more pangea was so large that some parts would still be temperate.  

 

I think I pointed out that after a scripture double check I couldn't confirm no rain before flood.   Flood certianly contained more rain than was typical.  Laws are laws they would have been in operation. Evaporation would have been happening.   I can build a terarium that will have no rain as we know it but will still have evaporation and condensation happening.  Could this happen on a large scale?

 

I see the firmament as the atmosphere.  Have you gone back to the original language and found it translated as a steel dome?  I haven't yet checked.

 

None of the Christians I know would let a sick baby die or stick only with faith healing.  My opinion of national health care is mixed. 

 

Am being distracted by late travel noises...

I have a sarcastic and tongue in cheek sense of humor.  I understand science well enough to get where the mamal reference is coming from.  If it bugs some of my fellow Christians let it.  Sometimes we need to get over ourselves.

So to my fellow mammal, homo sapian earthling, and potential brother in Christ be blessed.  Have a good work week. 

Lisa

 While it is nice to hear that you would not help in the burning of atheist.You are not a member of a large riot group. This year two newly elected members of congress started bills in there states making it legal for people to shot and kill abortions doctors. Both bills died but still for this to even make the light of day is scary. O the two states were  South Dakota and  Nebraska.

 Ya know the Christian chat rooms were full of supporters of the man that walked into a church and gunned down an abortion doctor last year. Freaked me out the level of support this guy got. 

  Don't seem like that far a stretch  to get from killing abortions doctors to moving on to the least liked group in america that being atheist.


Lisa said:

Wow it sounds like I sure bumped a nerve or something. 

No I wouldn't burn you at a stake or whatever for being an atheist.   I quite enjoy having someone challenge the problems with creation theory.  I haven't studied it deeply.   You aren't challenging my faith.  You are challenging my understanding of science from another angel.  There is value in that.  I'm kind of thinking out loud here anyway.

What I presented above is an off the cuff from memory repeat of a seminar I went too, mixed with what I know of science and some guesses of my own.  

Suspect some of the interpretations of the Bible I have been taught are in ere (long story) and still trying to work some things out for myself.  

 

Thanks for your comment on the ice sheets.  You pointed out something I hadn't thought about.   Didn't I say something about creating some bull excrement the other day.  I bet that you think I just did a really good job of it.

Plate tectonics would not make the climate always tropical.  You are right.  I think that could possibly explain continents moving farther from the tropics and therefore experiencing more cold.   Though when I think about it more pangea was so large that some parts would still be temperate.  

James said: Thing is super-continents are like ice ages as there were far more then one. More like five times all the major earths continents have came together Pangea being the last breaking up some 200 million years ago.

 

Ya never did commit on the top half of the Matterhorn being made of the continent of Africa.

 

I think I pointed out that after a scripture double check I couldn't confirm no rain before flood.   Flood certianly contained more rain than was typical.  Laws are laws they would have been in operation. Evaporation would have been happening.   I can build a terarium that will have no rain as we know it but will still have evaporation and condensation happening.  Could this happen on a large scale?

 

I see the firmament as the atmosphere.  Have you gone back to the original language and found it translated as a steel dome?  I haven't yet checked.

James said:  Yes I have. The word "firmament" is meant to correspond with the word raqia, or raqiya` ( רקיע), as used in Hebrew Bible.The original word " raqia " is derived from the root" raqa " meaning "to beat or spread out", e.g., the process of making a dish by hammering thin a lump of metal. Modern translations, NIV and ETV use the word "expanse", while the  New Revised Standard  uses "dome".

 The choice of translation is controversial because it affects how prominent the discord with modern cosmology first appears. It is argued that liberal Christians (and nonbelievers) are biased toward accepting a translation that favours critical and nonliteral interpretation (e.g., "firmament") whilst conservatives and fundamentalists seek a translation by which the scripture may harmonise with scientific knowledge (e.g., "expanse" implying empty sky).

 Now IMO, if we keep reading the Bible " firmament "applies being a solid thing as it needed to have windows, some of which opened and closed for the sun and moon to travel through or to let water, which was held above, fall through as rain. On top there were also warehouses of snow and hail. Stars were small objects that were attached tenuosly to its surface. I don't understand how a empty sky would hold anything up so solid dome fits the text in the Bible better.

 

 The only place I can think of about rain before the flood would be Genesis 2:5-6

Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.

 

If the laws of nature were working in pre-flood days there would have been clouds rain and rainbows.Yet rainbows are a gift/promise not to kill us all by flood again,that happened after the flood.

 

 

None of the Christians I know would let a sick baby die or stick only with faith healing.  My opinion of national health care is mixed. 

James said: 

 I guess someone needs to tell them that.Insurance companies are giving millions of dollars to republicans to be able to do just that. Some how I bet Fox News will not be the one telling about this. It's hypocritical for Republicans who are voting to take health coverage away from millions of Americans to accept coverage subsidized by those same people. I along with many others sent every member of congress the forms needed to stop getting free health care at tax payers expense.  Gee, can you believe none of them got off the free healthcare but many voted to take it away from you, me? (only thing I got out of this was I can place my 21 yo daughter back on my healthcare plan,that I also pay some for each month.)

 

Am being distracted by late travel noises...

I have a sarcastic and tongue in cheek sense of humor.  I understand science well enough to get where the mamal reference is coming from.  If it bugs some of my fellow Christians let it.  Sometimes we need to get over ourselves.

So to my fellow mammal, homo sapian earthling, and potential brother in Christ be blessed.  Have a good work week. 

Lisa

 

It's all good,I wanted you to know where I am coming from. I am not out to trash God for anyone, fundamentalism is the devil I want to stomp out.

  Be safe,this evolved animal is done with this post. Later James

Hi James [and Lisa],

I have started watching Victory in Jesus with Billy and Sharon Daugherty in the morning from 6 to 6:30. My day goes so joyful/enjoyable. We had a team meeting with HR and I heard a negative feeding frenzy where several were feeding off of each other. Every thing was perception and HR pointed out all the perceptions were false.

The Lord sees me and knows me when I am alone. Every Christian is in a stage of growth. We fall down, we get up and keep going. But for me, I am going to continue to pray, to read the Word and to grow; but most important not get lost in negative feeding frenzies.

On the that program this morning was a former muslim giving his testimony. He met a Christian girl and somehow in their conversation, she said she was praying for him. He said he got mad and said in devotion to Allah, he was going to kill her and himself. She told him Jesus loved him and died for him, so she loved him.

It started weighing on him. He prayed to Allah for guidance. No answer. He said he became so aware of the God he served who hated everybody and the God she served who loved everybody. He looked her up and ask her to pray with him to receive this Jesus. She did, gave him a Bible in his language and said anytime he wanted prayers or had questions or anything she could do, just call.

His family disowned him. Today several years later, he pastors a small church of former muslims. He said the contrast is so great, Jesus loves and Allah hates.

No Christian with their eyes on Christ, wants kill or harm. They want to learn to pray continually, read God's Word and help others where ever they can.

Have a nice day, James [and Lisa]

Mark

Hmmm, in my reading both the Bible and the Koran talk of killing the non-believers. Both holy books are about the same. I'd have to give marks to the Koran as being nicer to women.

Hi James,

Thanks for the reply. New Testament Scripture References?

The difference between the two books is Jesus. With Jesus, we get it all. With Jesus, we learn to love, some may be slow like me, but if we keep our eyes on Him, we eventually get it right. With Jesus, we have an eternity to look forward to. Without Jesus, we lose it all. Without Jesus, Hell is a default destiny. Without Jesus, demons have a field day in our lives and like our HR team meeting, life is a list of perceived grivances.

Thanks James for your views. I have made my choice as my eternity and daily joy is at stake. I, for me, am tired of running around the mountain one more time, taking the same classes over and ruining my own day for not paying attention in class. So I will do my best to listen and follow Jesus.

But I do hope you have a nice day, James,

Mark

  Hi Mark, 

  Whats it matter if I post NT scripture when you all continually use the OT to trash people. To judge others. To teach others. If the NT was the favored book that might make a bit more sense but the OT is the most often used. That is easily proven by going back and reading the post to me from you and Steve. OT rules big time.

 

 LOL, we have covered this. Few Christians believe it takes Jesus to make it to heaven.Only Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses have over 50% that believe it is there way or hell. Don't you remember,you called both cults. Gee not even Muslims are as hard core as you. How sad. I feel sorry for any with this shallow an outlook.

 

 Well your better start listening, your missing the mark with Jesus. Remember Jesus saves people, all people rapist, murders, thieves, and whores. All I see from you is judging others as not making the mark.  

 Why don't you show me that in Scripture?

 

 Hard word by me but I can't find a kinder way to say what needed to be said.

James

 



Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi James,

Thanks for the reply. New Testament Scripture References?

The difference between the two books is Jesus. With Jesus, we get it all. With Jesus, we learn to love, some may be slow like me, but if we keep our eyes on Him, we eventually get it right. With Jesus, we have an eternity to look forward to. Without Jesus, we lose it all. Without Jesus, Hell is a default destiny. Without Jesus, demons have a field day in our lives and like our HR team meeting, life is a list of perceived grivances.

Thanks James for your views. I have made my choice as my eternity and daily joy is at stake. I, for me, am tired of running around the mountain one more time, taking the same classes over and ruining my own day for not paying attention in class. So I will do my best to listen and follow Jesus.

But I do hope you have a nice day, James,

Mark

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The next Closer Walk Bible Study (Conference Call) will be tomorrow at 8 am EST. On Wednesday…See More
May 6, 2019

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