Tyler Hausen said:

Also, if we're going to be real followers of Christ, I think it would be appropriate to follow this verses as well:

Matthew 19:21

Luke 14:26-33

Luke 18:18-22

I'm starting to think we should listen to Jesus as literally as possible. I don't think he said this stuff just for fun.

 

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  • Don't say much for the richest country in the world.We are 5 percent of the world but waste 

    24% of the world's energy and throw away enough food to feed the worlds starving.

     

    We care more for the rich making money off  kicking a family off health insurance because they got sick then we do about a sick little girl.

     

     If there is a Hell most every American should go there. Lucky for us we are just selfish animals.

     


    Freedomist said:



    Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, If you have a
    desire to be complete, go, get money for your property, and give it to the
    poor, and you will have wealth in heaven: and come after me.



    Jesus was not telling all of us to give up our
    wealth, tho if our wealth is our master and we don't use it to serve Him (since
    everything is His anyway), then we will not enter the Kingdom. He knew this
    man's heart. He knew his wealth was his true master. Jesus recognized a tax
    collector, who was still wealthy, as being a member of His kingdom and also
    never said rich people CAN'T enter the kingdom, only that it would be very
    difficult, for the acquisition of wealth creates a tempting master



    Luke 14:26 And turning round, he said to them,
    If any man comes to me, and has not hate for his father and mother and wife and
    children and brothers and sisters, and even for his life, he may not be my
    disciple.



    Do you mean to suppose that Jesus is telling us
    to hate our parents and our children? Even tho he tells us to honor our father
    and mother? Even though he tells us not just to love them but love others as we
    love ourselves? You must take the full council of the Word to understand what
    he means here.....here is a great example of what the word "hate' really
    means here:



    The subject here is the word for hate, which is
    the Greek miseo.



    Luke 14:26 falls into a category of
    "extreme language," the language of

    absoluteness used to express a preference, and may refer to disattachment,

    indifference, or nonattachment without any feelings of revulsion involved. To

    seal this matter completely, let's look at some parallel materials which prove

    our point. The closest example comes from Genesis 29:30-1:



     



    And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved
    also Rachel more

    than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years. And when the LORD saw
    that

    Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was

    barren.



     



    Here, "hated" is clearly used
    synonymously with one who is loved less. Let it

    be added that if Jacob hated Leah in a literal way, it is hardly

    believable that he would consent to take her as his wife at all. (See also

    Judges 14:16 and Deut. 21:15-17.)



    from http://www.tektonics.org/gk/jesussayshate.html



    Christ is telling us to put His Word, His love
    above all others, including above ourselves and above our spouses, our parents,
    our children, everyone. If you look at what Christ tells us in Matthew 10- you
    will see he is preparing us for our own families turning against us because of
    our submission to Him-



    Matthew 10:34 Do not have the thought that I
    have come to send peace on the earth; I came not to send peace but a sword.

    35 For I have come to put a man against his father, and the daughter against
    her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law:

    36 And a man will be hated by those of his house.

    37 He who has more love for his father or mother than for me is not good enough
    for me; he who has more love for son or daughter than for me is not good enough
    for me.

    38 And he who does not take his cross and come after me is not good enough for
    me.

    39 He who has the desire to keep his life will have it taken from him, and he
    who gives up his life because of me will have it given back to him.



    Your last section is really a reiteration of your first
    verse:



    Luke 18:18  ¶And a certain ruler put a question to him,
    saying, Good Master, what have I to do so that I may have eternal life?



    19  And Jesus said to him, Why do you say that I am
    good? No one is good, but only God.



    20  You have knowledge of what the law says: Do not be
    untrue to your wife, Do not put anyone to death, Do not take what is not yours,
    Do not give false witness, Give honour to your father and mother.



    21  And he said, All these things I have done from the
    time when I was a boy.



    22  And Jesus, hearing it, said to him, One thing you
    still have need of; get money for your goods, and give it away to the poor, and
    you will have wealth in heaven; and come after me.



    This is where you end, but it does not tell the whole
    story.  This is an excellent example of
    our true salvation.  We can follow rules,
    do good, obey all the commandments and STILL not enter the kingdom, for the
    only entry to the kingdom is to submit to Christ in love and fear and follow
    Him wherever He leads you.  Watch this
    next verse:



    23  But at these words he became very sad, for he had
    great wealth.



    The man knew what Christ knew already, that his master was
    his wealth, not Christ.  If you still
    doubt that Christ was NOT talking to all of us, commanding, as you would have
    us believe, to give up everything we have and give it to the poor, then read on
    for the FULL council of God and not just a snippet taken out of context:



    Luke 18:24  And Jesus, looking at him, said, How hard
    it is for those who have wealth to get into the kingdom of God!



    25  It is simpler for a camel to go through the eye of
    a needle, than for a man who has much money to come into the kingdom of God.



    26  And those who were present said, Then who may have
    salvation?



    27  But he said, Things which are not possible with man
    are possible with God.



    Clearly, a wealthy man can enter the kingdom, but wealth is
    a deadly trap that few will be able to avoid. 
    We as Christians, rich or poor, must not hold anything in this world
    with a closed hand….We own nothing, even if our name is on the deed.  Christ owns everything.  If we behave as Stewards with the wealth we
    are blessed with, and use our wealth to serve Christ, then we can be
    billionaires and yet enter the kingdom, though I don’t suppose many
    billionaires will enter the kingdom for they most likely would have made wealth
    their master.

  • Freedomist

    GREAT REPLY!!!!


    Freedomist said:

    ...



  • Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, If you have a
    desire to be complete, go, get money for your property, and give it to the
    poor, and you will have wealth in heaven: and come after me.



    Jesus was not telling all of us to give up our
    wealth, tho if our wealth is our master and we don't use it to serve Him (since
    everything is His anyway), then we will not enter the Kingdom. He knew this
    man's heart. He knew his wealth was his true master. Jesus recognized a tax
    collector, who was still wealthy, as being a member of His kingdom and also
    never said rich people CAN'T enter the kingdom, only that it would be very
    difficult, for the acquisition of wealth creates a tempting master



    Luke 14:26 And turning round, he said to them,
    If any man comes to me, and has not hate for his father and mother and wife and
    children and brothers and sisters, and even for his life, he may not be my
    disciple.



    Do you mean to suppose that Jesus is telling us
    to hate our parents and our children? Even tho he tells us to honor our father
    and mother? Even though he tells us not just to love them but love others as we
    love ourselves? You must take the full council of the Word to understand what
    he means here.....here is a great example of what the word "hate' really
    means here:



    The subject here is the word for hate, which is
    the Greek miseo.



    Luke 14:26 falls into a category of
    "extreme language," the language of

    absoluteness used to express a preference, and may refer to disattachment,

    indifference, or nonattachment without any feelings of revulsion involved. To

    seal this matter completely, let's look at some parallel materials which prove

    our point. The closest example comes from Genesis 29:30-1:



     



    And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved
    also Rachel more

    than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years. And when the LORD saw
    that

    Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was

    barren.



     



    Here, "hated" is clearly used
    synonymously with one who is loved less. Let it

    be added that if Jacob hated Leah in a literal way, it is hardly

    believable that he would consent to take her as his wife at all. (See also

    Judges 14:16 and Deut. 21:15-17.)



    from http://www.tektonics.org/gk/jesussayshate.html



    Christ is telling us to put His Word, His love
    above all others, including above ourselves and above our spouses, our parents,
    our children, everyone. If you look at what Christ tells us in Matthew 10- you
    will see he is preparing us for our own families turning against us because of
    our submission to Him-



    Matthew 10:34 Do not have the thought that I
    have come to send peace on the earth; I came not to send peace but a sword.

    35 For I have come to put a man against his father, and the daughter against
    her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law:

    36 And a man will be hated by those of his house.

    37 He who has more love for his father or mother than for me is not good enough
    for me; he who has more love for son or daughter than for me is not good enough
    for me.

    38 And he who does not take his cross and come after me is not good enough for
    me.

    39 He who has the desire to keep his life will have it taken from him, and he
    who gives up his life because of me will have it given back to him.



    Your last section is really a reiteration of your first
    verse:



    Luke 18:18  ¶And a certain ruler put a question to him,
    saying, Good Master, what have I to do so that I may have eternal life?



    19  And Jesus said to him, Why do you say that I am
    good? No one is good, but only God.



    20  You have knowledge of what the law says: Do not be
    untrue to your wife, Do not put anyone to death, Do not take what is not yours,
    Do not give false witness, Give honour to your father and mother.



    21  And he said, All these things I have done from the
    time when I was a boy.



    22  And Jesus, hearing it, said to him, One thing you
    still have need of; get money for your goods, and give it away to the poor, and
    you will have wealth in heaven; and come after me.



    This is where you end, but it does not tell the whole
    story.  This is an excellent example of
    our true salvation.  We can follow rules,
    do good, obey all the commandments and STILL not enter the kingdom, for the
    only entry to the kingdom is to submit to Christ in love and fear and follow
    Him wherever He leads you.  Watch this
    next verse:



    23  But at these words he became very sad, for he had
    great wealth.



    The man knew what Christ knew already, that his master was
    his wealth, not Christ.  If you still
    doubt that Christ was NOT talking to all of us, commanding, as you would have
    us believe, to give up everything we have and give it to the poor, then read on
    for the FULL council of God and not just a snippet taken out of context:



    Luke 18:24  And Jesus, looking at him, said, How hard
    it is for those who have wealth to get into the kingdom of God!



    25  It is simpler for a camel to go through the eye of
    a needle, than for a man who has much money to come into the kingdom of God.



    26  And those who were present said, Then who may have
    salvation?



    27  But he said, Things which are not possible with man
    are possible with God.



    Clearly, a wealthy man can enter the kingdom, but wealth is
    a deadly trap that few will be able to avoid. 
    We as Christians, rich or poor, must not hold anything in this world
    with a closed hand….We own nothing, even if our name is on the deed.  Christ owns everything.  If we behave as Stewards with the wealth we
    are blessed with, and use our wealth to serve Christ, then we can be
    billionaires and yet enter the kingdom, though I don’t suppose many
    billionaires will enter the kingdom for they most likely would have made wealth
    their master.

  • Tyler,

    Your post was moved in order to keep the focus of the other thread on conflict resolution according to Matt. 18. 

    Thanks.

  • Tyler, 

    You said:

     


    You guys need to stop removing posts you don't agree with. Intellectual dishonesty won't get you anywhere.

     



    Bill Collier said:

    Ty, your post was moved to its own thread because it was not on subject. The subject is how to resolve conflict within the Body of Christ.

     

     

This reply was deleted.