Whats is the 'church'? - its 'purpose'? are all churches that say chrisitan really of Christ?

[Rev. Rich Thomas]

I have a question - well by the time I got done more than one - it goes together in a body of teaching that needs to be reviewed and restored in the church to rebuild the walls - to reset the lines to not cross over...to cleanse the church.. to make herself ready
- what spirit are you IN?
and
What is the 'church'?
What is the purpose of the church?
How can we know the 'true' from the 'false' church?
How can we know 'true' and 'false' leaders in the household of faith?
Can their be a 'false gospel'?
Can well meaning, sincere Christians be decieved and follow false spirits, gopsels or another Jesus?

then I would ask - what church are you in?
and
what spirit are you in?

I hope this provokes some thought before the testing fo the word and the Holy Spirit to answer these questions ad consider what is Gods Purpose for the Assemblies of the saints

one more -
Are chrisitans supposed to judge? Yes?? No?

If a chrisitan is to judge when is it commanded and when is it not allowed Delete Comment

[Valia]

Rev. Thomas,

Good questions! Did you know you can actually create online forms that people can fill out so that their answers are stored in an online database? This would help simplify collecting answers to questions.

I can't answer all of your questions thoroughly at the moment, but here's the questions I can answer:

What is the 'church'? I believe the church is simply people coming together to share the word of God. It can be in a church building or even in someone's home.

What is the purpose of the church? The purpose of the church is to share the Gospel of Christ with the world and to help those in need.

How can we know the 'true' from the 'false' church? This is how:
Matthew 7:15-18: 15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

How can we know 'true' and 'false' leaders in the household of faith? Again, keeping the verse above in mind, you need look no further than the Bible itself to test the spirit to know if it is of God or not.

Can there be a 'false gospel'? Most definitely. We are seeing it all the time in this day and age. People that take the Bible out of context are inadvertently creating new "gospels" to suit their own worldviews.

Can well meaning, sincere Christians be deceived and follow false spirits, gospels or another Jesus? Yes, people are being deceived on a daily basis. All one needs to do is to take scripture out of context or believe something a church leader says that isn't even mentioned in the Bible, and they are already being deceived without realizing it.

Are Christians supposed to judge? Yes? No? Yes, I believe Christians are to judge, but the only tool we are to judge with is the Bible. By judging, I mean making a judgment on whether someone is following the Bible or not in order to help them see the truth. Why would God mention about good fruit and bad fruit if He does not want us to judge people based on the fruit they produce?

[Rev. Rich Thomas]

Very good answers...I enjoyed that. I would simply say the easiest way and a way most chrisitans do not think about nor have been taught in most circles is this. The fruit that we should see is OBEDIENCE - thats obedience to the word.

As far AS FALSE PROPHETS and what the apostle Peter said FALSE TEACHERS - what do both of these kinds of people do - in other words prophets or teachrs? well simply put they bring revelation.. through oratory or teaching....so simply put their presentation is false.....

you will know them by their fruits! - what is fruit? fruit of a tree or vegetable is what that life produces. An orange tree produces oranges.....a tomato plant produces tomato.......a chrisitan produces??? the fruits and works that Glorify God - that point to God

Can a chrisitan produce what seems to be good fruit and still be lost? MANy will come to me in that day and say LORD, LORD ...have we not prphecied, done miracles, heaed the sich, ettc, etc, etc - (alot of other things will be said) and Jesus will sat ge away from me I never knew you ( had no intimate fellowship with you - and some add the lat part ) you who PRACTICE lawlessness ( this is the idea of lawlessness, iniquity, rebellion)...they were practicing doing their own thing and not OBEYING the commands of jesus - which He alos gave commandments through His apostles the bible says.....

My whole purpose is to provoke our thinking about these questions......to expand our horizons in the teaching of the truth - because we are i the time of the 'falling away from the faith' - and many who fall away will form what revelation says 'looks like a lamb' - this is what assists the antichrist come to power.....thse in the false church - the one who looks like a lamb will be damned - they wil perish and the revation says the smoke will come up from their destruction forever and forever....

ys, there is context and their is also what the bible calls rightly dividing the word of truth - which the bible says we are to ' study to show ourselves approved to God a workmen rightly dividing the word of truth' ----

as far as the church, the true church - we are MUCH MORE than we realize - becuase God Birthed and Gave it al to us - not because of what we have done. If and whn we relaize who we are ad apply (obey) these truths and manifest ourselves as it is written about us - we wil be the Glorious Church without spot and without wrnikle...we will be ready fr the next age..

this age is ending and the next is being birthed.....all the birthpangs Jesus spoke about our upon us...we must BE READY...we must overcome....we must endure to the end. Once the final labor pains start they will not stop until the birth comes forth......

we must realize we have let the world in our lives and the age ad thus into the church and we have to cast it out and seperate ourselves from it - I mentioned before this good parable t illustrate this truth. its o.k for the ship to be in the watr but its bot o.k. for the water to be in the ship. Its o.k. for the church to be in the world but its not o.k for the world to b in the church...as one of my spiritual fathers says....the people in the church and those coming in today for the most part are bailing water........sinking....and those coming into the churh today have to bail water to stay afloat - we lost th vison of who we really are - we have let go of the word - the true revelation of who we are as the church....and we are salt that has lst it savor - thas why society the world and age) walks all over us ..... its more than prsecuton or affliction which is part of the life that follows christ - its downright contempt of us....and they have NO FEAR - .... I submit thats because most of us do not FEAR GOD - so without that as part of our worship of him with reverence and submission and obedience in Godly fear - the world does not see that eithr in us and cannot be taught that lesson and fear God even if they do not want to repent and be born into the Kingdom to be placed into the true church....

simply put - there is NO WISDOM - but there is alot of presentations like its wisdom - but most is HUMANISM - human + # 6

as it is written 'the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom' - so much human ??wisdom?/ humanism has misplaced the true wisdom of God - which starts from The stating point) and comes out of the fear of the Lord...

the new god is humanism and their are mass defections for a lack of knowldge, deception and bad teaching in the church - as the apsotles throught the hly spirit said about the last days.. seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, heaping up your own teachers onto yourself - having itchy ears (to hear what they want), ever learning never acknowedging 9doing9 the truth, the revival of the spirit of jannes and Jambres (withchraft, sorcery, divinations) who resist the truth...lovers of self, lovers of money, lovers of pleasure - rather than LOVERS OF GOD...
God is love we scream... dont tell anyone to repent...dont tell anyon the sin that they practice will cause thm t perish...don;t confront sin because they wi say dont condemn me - thats humanism + the placing of humans above god - and refuse any other expression of God and we twist and change (for human consumption - rather than glorifying God) the God is Love ito "love is god' - which is humanistic....false and damnabe heresie which will lead many to persih - hell and the lake of fire in torment forever....

Hopefully others will read this and be provoked in their thinking ----may God open your eyes..and may you endure to the end

[Ernie Catalano]

I believe that the purpose of the church is to encourage and build up the people who are lost and hurting. Most churches that I have been to, preach guilt and condemnation and for that reason many people stay away from most churches.

[Joseph DiBari]

1. We the people are the church. Any person who declares Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is the church. The church should not be motivated by a spirit of compitition, after all we are not selling hamburgers. In the book of Acts we see ( ... and added to the church daily ), comes to mind.
2. Duplication through discipleship, that's the purpose of the church.
3. Any teaching or ministry that seems to operate in the "spirit of antichrist" would be something to personally check against the Bible. Antichrist is anything that puts a person under bondage or pressure or manipulation or control. Freedom to follow.
4. In the Old Testement false teachers were stoned, ( just a thought ). Today the very presence of God through His Holy Spirit dwells in all those who believe that Jesus came in the flesh and was crucified dead and has risen again for our justification. A part of that purpose is for each one of us to be lead and directed by His Peace. Every teaching should be checked personally by each of us by the Bible, if it is not in there throw it away. If a person is looking for guidelines or permission to judge anothers ministry then that person may have some things to deal with in thier own prayer closet.
5. I do not know what a "false gospel" is. False meaning untrue and gospel meaning "Good News", I do not believe the two can co-exist. But all teaching must go back to the Bible, individually. A quote from scripture comes to mind " ...if this is from God you can do nothing to stop it, and if it not from God it will come to nothing anyway ".
6. The only way to be deceived is through ignorance. My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. It is not just who you believe, it is always why do you believe what you believe. When a person is first saved that will be a question that will try to unseat Jesus from that person's heart. Why do think you are saved or any different then you were before you prayed that prayer to receive Jesus? If that person does not know the answer to that question that person is in for a world of hurt. The answer is and should be for all that a christian believes is, "because of what the Bible says in Rom 10:9-10 that's why". And that person better know it too.
Another Jesus. Does what a preacher, teacher, pastor, apostle, evangelist and or prophet do point to themselves or to Jesus? Is the effect of the actions of these making people dependant on them or Jesus?
7. We are called to judge individual actiions, as they petain to us. However if something is revealed to a person about another person it is even before approaching that person, for intercession, prayer. Before running over to correct someone, (or telling everyone), how much time, how many hours have been spent in prayer for that person. We are not to judge a persons eternal destination.

I hope this communication finds you blessed,

Joseph

[Rev. Rich Thomas]

You have some good points - some of you comments can be completed, perfected, telios - answered more accurately - but these are your insights and we appreciate them...... I am thinking of a way to clarigfy some points in a gracios way - we do appreciate your bold stab at the subject matter

Joseph DiBari said:

1. We the people are the church. Any person who declares Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is the church. The church should not be motivated by a spirit of compitition, after all we are not selling hamburgers. In the book of Acts we see ( ... and added to the church daily ), comes to mind.
2. Duplication through discipleship, that's the purpose of the church.
3. Any teaching or ministry that seems to operate in the "spirit of antichrist" would be something to personally check against the Bible. Antichrist is anything that puts a person under bondage or pressure or manipulation or control. Freedom to follow.
4. In the Old Testement false teachers were stoned, ( just a thought ). Today the very presence of God through His Holy Spirit dwells in all those who believe that Jesus came in the flesh and was crucified dead and has risen again for our justification. A part of that purpose is for each one of us to be lead and directed by His Peace. Every teaching should be checked personally by each of us by the Bible, if it is not in there throw it away. If a person is looking for guidelines or permission to judge anothers ministry then that person may have some things to deal with in thier own prayer closet.
5. I do not know what a "false gospel" is. False meaning untrue and gospel meaning "Good News", I do not believe the two can co-exist. But all teaching must go back to the Bible, individually. A quote from scripture comes to mind " ...if this is from God you can do nothing to stop it, and if it not from God it will come to nothing anyway ".
6. The only way to be deceived is through ignorance. My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. It is not just who you believe, it is always why do you believe what you believe. When a person is first saved that will be a question that will try to unseat Jesus from that person's heart. Why do think you are saved or any different then you were before you prayed that prayer to receive Jesus? If that person does not know the answer to that question that person is in for a world of hurt. The answer is and should be for all that a christian believes is, "because of what the Bible says in Rom 10:9-10 that's why". And that person better know it too.
Another Jesus. Does what a preacher, teacher, pastor, apostle, evangelist and or prophet do point to themselves or to Jesus? Is the effect of the actions of these making people dependant on them or Jesus?
7. We are called to judge individual actiions, as they petain to us. However if something is revealed to a person about another person it is even before approaching that person, for intercession, prayer. Before running over to correct someone, (or telling everyone), how much time, how many hours have been spent in prayer for that person. We are not to judge a persons eternal destination.

I hope this communication finds you blessed,

Joseph