A Question for the Atheists AND Christians *EDITED to include survey!*

[Valia]

Hi Atheists AND Christians,

I have a question for you.  Do you have any personal morals, values, and standards that you hold to in your life?  For example, do you strive to be honest?  If so, what inspires you to hold yourself accountable to your own morals?

Please take the short survey here.

Looking forward to hearing your replies.

[Mark Edward Kroger]

Scripture says, "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God." It does not say, "Mark Kroger is a fool." We can try to learn from God or accuse Him. It is our choice and our consequence.

The letter of the Law killeth. The New Birth teaches us to love one another, bear one another's burdens, pray one for another, share with one another, etc. God loves us and through Jesus is teaching us to reach out to the lost, the hungry and the poor. I love God so much. I want others to know Him so they can see how wonderful He really is. With tears, I'll be praying...

Mark

Francis Thomas said:

The point of the Dawkins quote is to point out that secular morality is better than religious morality.
Speaking of calling people names, doesn't you holy book call atheists fools?

Juanita said:

Francis,

I am not getting your point on the Dawkins quote.

And, for the record, I did not say that people don't have morals without God. From my POV, morals are 'hard-wired' into people. However, belief systems also effect behavior, which is what I was taking to Harris about. But, I am really done with talking to Harris. He now seems to think that sharing my point of view makes me 'hateful'.

Harris, for your information, we don't call people names on this site.

Francis Thomas said:

To paraphrase Hitchens, the idea that without a celestial dictator we would not know right from wrong is insulting to me, you, and the rest of humanity.

Also the point which Dawkins makes so excellently runs thus: Can you name an immoral action which could only be taken by a religious person? Yes of course you could. Can you name an immoral action which could only be taken by an irreligious person? I think not.

[Mark Edward Kroger]

Receiving Jesus as Savior secured my destiny. I am not afraid to get off this bullet train called life. But morals and values determine rewards and consequences of this life and rewards in the World to come.

It took me a very long time to learn there are consequences to my actions even as a Christian. I am grateful for the Holy Spirit's classes. He is teaching me how to set the matrix in motion in a positive manner instead of negative one. What I plant in your garden, will grow in mine.

I am grateful for this wonderful website stirring dialogue and planting seeds for the harvest. We won't know our full impact until we get home. I feel the Anointing here. None of the visitors will leave as they came as the Holy Spirit has begun his work and, "I will finish the good work I have started."

Thanks

Mark

[Steve Belttari]

     The Old Deluder Satan Law wasn't taken to seriously, but it did set a precedent for the 19th century experiment with other people's children.  Children of the working class were herded into these new Prussian compulsory schools to be whipped into shape for the industrial revolution.  Some parent's took their parental responsibilities seriously and were reluctant to go along, but were forced at gunpoint by the Mass. state militia to hand over their children to be "educated".  Mary Shelley gave us Frankenstein to help us understand what we are dealing with:  An artificially created diabolical monster with a mind of its own.  Anyone who supports it is a usurper.  Maybe like the apostle Paul at one time, they are acting out of ignorance, but they need to repent and get with the privatization program.
James said:

 You can thank the early Puritans of Massachusetts for todays public funded schools.In 1647 a law was passed requiring elementary schools in towns of 50 or more families. These were not free schools, but they were open to all and are considered the beginning of popular education in the United States.

Steve Belttari said:

     This is where being a ward of the state and not understanding the economic tyranny that we are under comes into play.  It has taken many years of being weened off  the world's system to really have a grasp on it.  I don't have a lot of time to go into the evils of socialism, but when I have more time I will try to put together something that gives a brief but complete overview. 

Rob said:

Why do people keep saying socialist like it's a bad thing?   :)

[Steve Belttari]

     I don't think Taxachusetts is a Christian commonwealth.  The Puritans were right in their orthodoxy about the Christian commonwealth, but had to much going against them to accomplish it at that time.  I think it will happen in our time though, for the scripture says:

 

     "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ."

 

This is the Church before He is raptured.  In these last days the world will never believe our testimony unless there is a "unity of the faith".   

James said:

 Massachusetts is still a commonwealth. It did not fail.

  The Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is the fundamental governing document of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and remains the oldest functioning written constitution in continuous effect in the world.

We, therefore, the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the goodness of the great Legislator of the universe, in affording us, in the course of His providence, an opportunity, deliberately and peaceably, without fraud, violence or surprise, of entering into an original, explicit, and solemn compact with each other; and of forming a new constitution of civil government, for ourselves and posterity; and devoutly imploring His direction in so interesting a design, do agree upon, ordain and establish the following Declaration of Rights, and Frame of Government, as the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Article I. All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness.

 

Even in it's early days Massachusetts was a center of social progressivism, activity. 

 Massachusetts became the first U.S. state to legally recognize same-sex marriage.

 

 

 

 

  

Steve Belttari said:

     Your socialist indoctrination is coming out, a COMMONWEALTH would be the exact opposite of that.  A culture of small business owners living under true Christian liberty.  The courts in Massachusetts still refer to Massachusetts as a commonwealth-as in Christian commonwealth, it is that in name only.  Just because they failed doesn't mean that we have to, God's promises are still for us today.

[Steve Belttari]

     "It is through God's promises that we escape the corruption in the world that is caused by evil human desires".   The Christian commonwealth is not an optional promise.  A Christian commonwealth is similiar to the Jewish commonwealth in the O.T. but is based on better promises.  We fall far short of this because of apostasy, a key element in this apostasy is compulsory public miseducation.  There is nothing good about compulsory public miseducation.  There has never been a time when there has been anything good about compulsory public miseducation.  There has never been a public good that has been served by compulsory public miseducation.  It is still God's will that parent's are the primary educators of their children and not the state.  Under the present arrangement, a parent might be forced to compete with the state, but we can change that.  The Christian homeschooling movement has provided much light, but it can't stop there.  Compulsory public miseducation must be discredited and replaced with educational freedom(privatization).   
Lisa said:

Attending public school makes me a ward of the state and means I don't have parents to honor? Right (very sarcastic). I have two parents to honor whether I agree with them and all that they did raising me or not. Attending public school often means that parents did not choose to pay for other options. It might also mean that they did not agree with other options. It might mean that they wanted their child exposed to a broader experience and to rub shoulders with individuals of more varried opinion than would happen by attending available private . You Sir have some unigue views. I'll likely drop out the way I jumped in so enjoy your discussion. I might ask also how does disagreeing with someones choise of homosexuality equate spreading hatred. I disagree with a raving alcoholic but I don't them. I do hope they eventually are able to .

[James]

 You can thank the early Puritans of Massachusetts for todays public funded schools.In 1647 a law was passed requiring elementary schools in towns of 50 or more families. These were not free schools, but they were open to all and are considered the beginning of popular education in the United States.

Steve Belttari said:

     This is where being a ward of the state and not understanding the economic tyranny that we are under comes into play.  It has taken many years of being weened off  the world's system to really have a grasp on it.  I don't have a lot of time to go into the evils of socialism, but when I have more time I will try to put together something that gives a brief but complete overview. 

Rob said:

Why do people keep saying socialist like it's a bad thing?   :)

[James]

 Massachusetts is still a commonwealth. It did not fail.

  The Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is the fundamental governing document of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and remains the oldest functioning written constitution in continuous effect in the world.

We, therefore, the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the goodness of the great Legislator of the universe, in affording us, in the course of His providence, an opportunity, deliberately and peaceably, without fraud, violence or surprise, of entering into an original, explicit, and solemn compact with each other; and of forming a new constitution of civil government, for ourselves and posterity; and devoutly imploring His direction in so interesting a design, do agree upon, ordain and establish the following Declaration of Rights, and Frame of Government, as the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Article I. All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness.

 

Even in it's early days Massachusetts was a center of social progressivism, activity. 

 Massachusetts became the first U.S. state to legally recognize same-sex marriage.

 

 

 

 

  

Steve Belttari said:

     Your socialist indoctrination is coming out, a COMMONWEALTH would be the exact opposite of that.  A culture of small business owners living under true Christian liberty.  The courts in Massachusetts still refer to Massachusetts as a commonwealth-as in Christian commonwealth, it is that in name only.  Just because they failed doesn't mean that we have to, God's promises are still for us today.

[Lisa]

Attending public school makes me a ward of the state and means I don't have parents to honor? Right (very sarcastic). I have two parents to honor whether I agree with them and all that they did raising me or not. Attending public school often means that parents did not choose to pay for other options. It might also mean that they did not agree with other options. It might mean that they wanted their child exposed to a broader experience and to rub shoulders with individuals of more varried opinion than would happen by attending available private schools. You Sir have some unigue views. I'll likely drop out the way I jumped in so enjoy your discussion. I might ask also how does disagreeing with someones choise of homosexuality equate spreading hatred. I disagree with a raving alcoholic but I don't them. I do hope they eventually are able to kick the habit.

[Steve Belttari]

     This is where being a ward of the state and not understanding the economic tyranny that we are under comes into play.  It has taken many years of being weened off  the world's system to really have a grasp on it.  I don't have a lot of time to go into the evils of socialism, but when I have more time I will try to put together something that gives a brief but complete overview. 

Rob said:

Why do people keep saying socialist like it's a bad thing?   :)

[Steve Belttari]

     Your socialist indoctrination is coming out, a COMMONWEALTH would be the exact opposite of that.  A culture of small business owners living under true Christian liberty.  The courts in Massachusetts still refer to Massachusetts as a commonwealth-as in Christian commonwealth, it is that in name only.  Just because they failed doesn't mean that we have to, God's promises are still for us today.