America-Christian Nation

[Sierra Nichole]

Im wondering how many ppl still agree with this statement?

I personally dont like hearing it because if America is known for being a "Christian" Nation then what kind of message are we sending to the world? That its ok to be gay, have premarital sex, engage in witchcraft, have abortions, etc.

These are things are country believes in yet as Christians we try to keep saying that we are a Christian Nation.

We may have been founded on Christian principles but by no means do we act as a Christian Nation.

Am I the only one who has a problem with that?

[James]

As an atheist I would let Muslims have every thing Christians or any other faith has in this country.
No more no less.

I truely believe in freedom of religion or no religion.

I guess thats just another crasy atheist morral.



Steve Belttari said:

James,
Very good point about the work that needs to be done to unify doctrine amoungst the various Christian denominations. I do not belong to a Church denomination, but I occasionally assemble with other believers for corporate worship at a secular temple(public high school). I interpret the 1st amendment to mean that there will not be an established state church denonination, not necessarily to keep all religious influence out of government. The main concern of the Church has always been to keep the government out of the Church, it has not done a very good job of this, hence, church incorporation(501c10 etc...). I think our main concern about the 1st amendment should be Islam, by definition, a state religion that seeks to make the whole world one big state religion. This will never happen while the Church is in the world though, because we will influence our powerful secular government to take an aggressive stance towards Islam.

James said:

Only the Christians,and they can't keep their story straight. Every Christian denomination has a different interpretation of what the bible says.

People of other faiths and non-believers understand clearly the what and the why this country is/was made to keep religion out of government. Tobe free of any one forcing their beliefs down others throats.


IMO, all Christian denomination need to fight/work it out and come up with one interpretation of the bible and stick to that. So ya all got some work to do. Better get to it...

Steve Belttari said:

I think "education" can be a very subjective word. It is a proven fact that children can learn the basics of reading, writing and arithmetic in 100 hours, so there must be more to keeping children locked up for 12 years then so called education. Like a backslidden Christian who is trying to find his way back to the Lord, backslidden America is indeed confused about its identity as a Christian-nation.

James said:

Great, a Christian nation full of people that believe in both a young earth (so wrong) and plate tectonics (support old earth) with 20 percent that think the sun revolves around the earth.

I would not put much into the fact that American adults faver creation over the facts of evolution. In science Americans have shown over and over again that they don't know even simple science.

To me that says you are proud of how undereducated Christians are. I guess thats good for christianity as the numbers show more education equalls people that know the moon reflects light, the earth revolves around the sun and the earth is billions of years old.

Yap, I am all for teaching kids the truth of religion. All religions,evolution of religions if you will. Show where the bible came from show where it was stolen from faiths that came before.

List from the world of creation myths. Yap, the Christian & Jewish Creation Myth is included free of charge.
http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html

In the younger people evolution already is pulling ahead of creation.As the old creationist die off they are not being replaced, in time the truth of evolution wins.

[Steve Belttari]

James,
Very good point about the work that needs to be done to unify doctrine amoungst the various Christian denominations. I do not belong to a Church denomination, but I occasionally assemble with other believers for corporate worship at a secular temple(public high school). I interpret the 1st amendment to mean that there will not be an established state church denonination, not necessarily to keep all religious influence out of government. The main concern of the Church has always been to keep the government out of the Church, it has not done a very good job of this, hence, church incorporation(501c10 etc...). I think our main concern about the 1st amendment should be Islam, by definition, a state religion that seeks to make the whole world one big state religion. This will never happen while the Church is in the world though, because we will influence our powerful secular government to take an aggressive stance towards Islam.

James said:

Only the Christians,and they can't keep their story straight. Every Christian denomination has a different interpretation of what the bible says.

People of other faiths and non-believers understand clearly the what and the why this country is/was made to keep religion out of government. Tobe free of any one forcing their beliefs down others throats.


IMO, all Christian denomination need to fight/work it out and come up with one interpretation of the bible and stick to that. So ya all got some work to do. Better get to it...

Steve Belttari said:

I think "education" can be a very subjective word. It is a proven fact that children can learn the basics of reading, writing and arithmetic in 100 hours, so there must be more to keeping children locked up for 12 years then so called education. Like a backslidden Christian who is trying to find his way back to the Lord, backslidden America is indeed confused about its identity as a Christian-nation.

James said:

Great, a Christian nation full of people that believe in both a young earth (so wrong) and plate tectonics (support old earth) with 20 percent that think the sun revolves around the earth.

I would not put much into the fact that American adults faver creation over the facts of evolution. In science Americans have shown over and over again that they don't know even simple science.

To me that says you are proud of how undereducated Christians are. I guess thats good for christianity as the numbers show more education equalls people that know the moon reflects light, the earth revolves around the sun and the earth is billions of years old.

Yap, I am all for teaching kids the truth of religion. All religions,evolution of religions if you will. Show where the bible came from show where it was stolen from faiths that came before.

List from the world of creation myths. Yap, the Christian & Jewish Creation Myth is included free of charge.
http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html

In the younger people evolution already is pulling ahead of creation.As the old creationist die off they are not being replaced, in time the truth of evolution wins.

[James]

Only the Christians,and they can't keep their story straight. Every Christian denomination has a different interpretation of what the bible says.

People of other faiths and non-believers understand clearly the what and the why this country is/was made to keep religion out of government. Tobe free of any one forcing their beliefs down others throats.


IMO, all Christian denomination need to fight/work it out and come up with one interpretation of the bible and stick to that. So ya all got some work to do. Better get to it...

Steve Belttari said:

I think "education" can be a very subjective word. It is a proven fact that children can learn the basics of reading, writing and arithmetic in 100 hours, so there must be more to keeping children locked up for 12 years then so called education. Like a backslidden Christian who is trying to find his way back to the Lord, backslidden America is indeed confused about its identity as a Christian-nation.

James said:

Great, a Christian nation full of people that believe in both a young earth (so wrong) and plate tectonics (support old earth) with 20 percent that think the sun revolves around the earth.

I would not put much into the fact that American adults faver creation over the facts of evolution. In science Americans have shown over and over again that they don't know even simple science.

To me that says you are proud of how undereducated Christians are. I guess thats good for christianity as the numbers show more education equalls people that know the moon reflects light, the earth revolves around the sun and the earth is billions of years old.

Yap, I am all for teaching kids the truth of religion. All religions,evolution of religions if you will. Show where the bible came from show where it was stolen from faiths that came before.

List from the world of creation myths. Yap, the Christian & Jewish Creation Myth is included free of charge.
http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html

In the younger people evolution already is pulling ahead of creation.As the old creationist die off they are not being replaced, in time the truth of evolution wins.

[Steve Belttari]

I think "education" can be a very subjective word. It is a proven fact that children can learn the basics of reading, writing and arithmetic in 100 hours, so there must be more to keeping children locked up for 12 years then so called education. Like a backslidden Christian who is trying to find his way back to the Lord, backslidden America is indeed confused about its identity as a Christian-nation.

James said:

Great, a Christian nation full of people that believe in both a young earth (so wrong) and plate tectonics (support old earth) with 20 percent that think the sun revolves around the earth.

I would not put much into the fact that American adults faver creation over the facts of evolution. In science Americans have shown over and over again that they don't know even simple science.

To me that says you are proud of how undereducated Christians are. I guess thats good for christianity as the numbers show more education equalls people that know the moon reflects light, the earth revolves around the sun and the earth is billions of years old.

Yap, I am all for teaching kids the truth of religion. All religions,evolution of religions if you will. Show where the bible came from show where it was stolen from faiths that came before.

List from the world of creation myths. Yap, the Christian & Jewish Creation Myth is included free of charge.
http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html

In the younger people evolution already is pulling ahead of creation.As the old creationist die off they are not being replaced, in time the truth of evolution wins.

[James]

Great, a Christian nation full of people that believe in both a young earth (so wrong) and plate tectonics (support old earth) with 20 percent that think the sun revolves around the earth.

I would not put much into the fact that American adults faver creation over the facts of evolution. In science Americans have shown over and over again that they don't know even simple science.

To me that says you are proud of how undereducated Christians are. I guess thats good for christianity as the numbers show more education equalls people that know the moon reflects light, the earth revolves around the sun and the earth is billions of years old.

Yap, I am all for teaching kids the truth of religion. All religions,evolution of religions if you will. Show where the bible came from show where it was stolen from faiths that came before.

List from the world of creation myths. Yap, the Christian & Jewish Creation Myth is included free of charge.
http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html

In the younger people evolution already is pulling ahead of creation.As the old creationist die off they are not being replaced, in time the truth of evolution wins.

[Steve Belttari]

That more people believe in creation than evolution, is only more proof that America is truly a Christian nation, even if it has evolutionary humanism/atheism as an established state religion. I believe in educational freedom/complete privatization of education. It doesn't surprise me that you brought up public schools, kind of makes me want to listen to Pink Floyd's Another Brick in the Wall: "We don't need no education, we don't need no thought control, hey teachers leave those kids alone, all we are is another brick in the wall".
James said:

In America more people believe in Creation in one form or another then evolution. Young earth, old earth, gap creation or evolutionary creationism. These arethe ones indoctrinated to believe.Like the poor dude Bill Nye "The Science Guy" who was booed in Waco, Texas for suggesting the Moon did not generate its own light, but reflected light from the sun.People got up and left saying "We believe in god here". Allong with the fact that still in this day and age 1 in 5 American adults still believe the sun goes around the earth.

Where did these silly people get that the moon makes its own light or the the sun is the one revolves around the earth? Nothing short of brain washing from a young age make one able to fend off common knowledge of the world then the bible.

I am all for the teaching of Creation in public schools. Start with the oldest known creation acounts and work our way forward. If we start in say 3rd or 4th grade we should get to the Christian creation account by the 2nd. or 3rd.year of high school.

Mapping of animals genome is adding proof to evolution big time. See how an apes 48 chromosomes became 46 in humans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk

I've been checking out the evolution debate s here,There is not any debate.

O by the way the Bible has the wrong value for PI as being 3 not 3.14 we now use.

cite="https://kingdominsight.ning.com/forum/topics/americachristian-nation?commentId=2691844%3AComment%3A38899&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2691844Comment38899">

I can't handle apes and men sharing a common ancestor, like I can't handle 2+2=5, it just isn't true. To stay with the Christian nation theme, I look at the United States as being like a backsliden Christian, it got off to a good start(American Revolutionary War) but then drifted of course because of bad influences(U.S. Constitution). The only reason most people believe in evolution, is because that's what they were indoctrinated to believe. This can be overcome though: "We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle to the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to Christ."

James said:

LOL, Gap theory for you I see. I find all the different creation theories very humorous. Ya all won't believe in evolution covering billions of years yet have not problem with it happening very fast,after the flood. ie evolution of language in humans, evolution of humans races,spread of animalsaround the earth after flood, and evolution of continents, to which 78% of american adults believe. 78% thats cool,and far more then know the sun revolves around the earth.

Theory of evolution is the least of your problems,Many more theories need tobe added to the NO NO list for Christians.Theory of elements,theory of plate tectonics,theory of radioactive decay, theory of infectious diseases,theory of earth magnetic field and theory of medicine to name but a few.

I was wondering do creatlist get flu shots, or vaccinate their children?

The Clergy Letter Project is an organization that has created and maintains a statement signed by American Christian clergy of different denominations rejecting creationism, with specific reference to points raised by intelligent design proponents. It has 12,669 signatures as of 8/19/10).
http://blue.butler.edu/~mzimmerm/rel_evol_sun.htm

why can't you handle apes and man sharing a common ancestor? In no way should it take away from your faith. Bible says the moon makes its own light.Do you believe that? Many be you should.

Steve Belttari said:

Just stating a fact about the United States having a state religion. Even if the theory of evolution is true(which it is not), evolutionary humanism would still be a state religion that the constitutional strong central government has produced. We have already had a long, tedious creation-evolution discussion on Kingdom Insight. If we did not have a state religion, this discussion would not be necessary. God created the earth billions of years ago, 6000 years ago He recreated the earth and created man, this is what God's Word teaches.

James said:

Like it or not the earth is billions of years old tand Evolution is full of facts. There is only one country in the world that has any where the umber of creationist as the USA and that is a Muslim run country of Turkey.

In my book that is nothing to be proud of.

Steve Belttari said:

Instead of churches being incorporated into the state, they would truly be the Ekklesia(called out ones of God), that is all I meant by "genuine Christianity". Without having a big government that the Constitution produced, we would also not have a state religion(evolutionary humanism) which also confuses the true worship of God in Spirit and in truth.

James said:

In reallalty we are as free to choice a religion now then we would ever be under a confederated government. Less free states as you put it,would arm themselfs to defend there form of religion to the death. No matter the faith history teaches us that people of faith if backed into a corner feel justified to do some very crure,down right nasty things.

What is your definition of genuine Christianity? This is going to be interesting.

Steve Belttari said:

In theory, we already are supposed to be a confederated government, that is what federalism is after all. The word anti-Federalist was used by the Federalists to denigrate their oppostion, meaning they(anti-Federalists) were against federalism. The anti-Federalists were not against federalism per se, what they were against was a new consolidated nation with a strong central government. So as the constitutional convention deliberated in secret, one of the committees voted 7 to 3 in favor of a new national government where the states(nations) were no longer sovereign. As things played out, to get their radical agenda ratified by the states, the Federalists had to acquiesce to a Bill of Rights, which gave the appearance of a confederated(federal) government, but in reality the states(nations) were now administative units of the new central government. So how would religion work if we were actually a confederated government? The way I see it, some states would have initially have had more religious freedom than others. However, as time went on, the less free states would have been positively influenced by the more free states and would have become bastions of religious liberty themselves. Overall, I think genuine Christianity would have thrived under this arrangement. For our purposes today, I think it would be instructive to see what a revamped 21st century version of the Articles of Confederation would look like. Maybe Bill Collier could put his version on Kingdom Insight for us.

James said:

To Steve Belttari,

I am curious.How would religion work in your confederated government.

[James]

In America more people believe in Creation in one form or another then evolution. Young earth, old earth, gap creation or evolutionary creationism. These arethe ones indoctrinated to believe.Like the poor dude Bill Nye "The Science Guy" who was booed in Waco, Texas for suggesting the Moon did not generate its own light, but reflected light from the sun.People got up and left saying "We believe in god here". Allong with the fact that still in this day and age 1 in 5 American adults still believe the sun goes around the earth.

Where did these silly people get that the moon makes its own light or the the sun is the one revolves around the earth? Nothing short of brain washing from a young age make one able to fend off common knowledge of the world then the bible.

I am all for the teaching of Creation in public schools. Start with the oldest known creation acounts and work our way forward. If we start in say 3rd or 4th grade we should get to the Christian creation account by the 2nd. or 3rd.year of high school.

Mapping of animals genome is adding proof to evolution big time. See how an apes 48 chromosomes became 46 in humans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk

I've been checking out the evolution debate s here,There is not any debate.

O by the way the Bible has the wrong value for PI as being 3 not 3.14 we now use.

cite="https://kingdominsight.ning.com/forum/topics/americachristian-nation?commentId=2691844%3AComment%3A38899&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2691844Comment38899">

I can't handle apes and men sharing a common ancestor, like I can't handle 2+2=5, it just isn't true. To stay with the Christian nation theme, I look at the United States as being like a backsliden Christian, it got off to a good start(American Revolutionary War) but then drifted of course because of bad influences(U.S. Constitution). The only reason most people believe in evolution, is because that's what they were indoctrinated to believe. This can be overcome though: "We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle to the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to Christ."

James said:

LOL, Gap theory for you I see. I find all the different creation theories very humorous. Ya all won't believe in evolution covering billions of years yet have not problem with it happening very fast,after the flood. ie evolution of language in humans, evolution of humans races,spread of animalsaround the earth after flood, and evolution of continents, to which 78% of american adults believe. 78% thats cool,and far more then know the sun revolves around the earth.

Theory of evolution is the least of your problems,Many more theories need tobe added to the NO NO list for Christians.Theory of elements,theory of plate tectonics,theory of radioactive decay, theory of infectious diseases,theory of earth magnetic field and theory of medicine to name but a few.

I was wondering do creatlist get flu shots, or vaccinate their children?

The Clergy Letter Project is an organization that has created and maintains a statement signed by American Christian clergy of different denominations rejecting creationism, with specific reference to points raised by intelligent design proponents. It has 12,669 signatures as of 8/19/10).
http://blue.butler.edu/~mzimmerm/rel_evol_sun.htm

why can't you handle apes and man sharing a common ancestor? In no way should it take away from your faith. Bible says the moon makes its own light.Do you believe that? Many be you should.

Steve Belttari said:

Just stating a fact about the United States having a state religion. Even if the theory of evolution is true(which it is not), evolutionary humanism would still be a state religion that the constitutional strong central government has produced. We have already had a long, tedious creation-evolution discussion on Kingdom Insight. If we did not have a state religion, this discussion would not be necessary. God created the earth billions of years ago, 6000 years ago He recreated the earth and created man, this is what God's Word teaches.

James said:

Like it or not the earth is billions of years old tand Evolution is full of facts. There is only one country in the world that has any where the umber of creationist as the USA and that is a Muslim run country of Turkey.

In my book that is nothing to be proud of.

Steve Belttari said:

Instead of churches being incorporated into the state, they would truly be the Ekklesia(called out ones of God), that is all I meant by "genuine Christianity". Without having a big government that the Constitution produced, we would also not have a state religion(evolutionary humanism) which also confuses the true worship of God in Spirit and in truth.

James said:

In reallalty we are as free to choice a religion now then we would ever be under a confederated government. Less free states as you put it,would arm themselfs to defend there form of religion to the death. No matter the faith history teaches us that people of faith if backed into a corner feel justified to do some very crure,down right nasty things.

What is your definition of genuine Christianity? This is going to be interesting.

Steve Belttari said:

In theory, we already are supposed to be a confederated government, that is what federalism is after all. The word anti-Federalist was used by the Federalists to denigrate their oppostion, meaning they(anti-Federalists) were against federalism. The anti-Federalists were not against federalism per se, what they were against was a new consolidated nation with a strong central government. So as the constitutional convention deliberated in secret, one of the committees voted 7 to 3 in favor of a new national government where the states(nations) were no longer sovereign. As things played out, to get their radical agenda ratified by the states, the Federalists had to acquiesce to a Bill of Rights, which gave the appearance of a confederated(federal) government, but in reality the states(nations) were now administative units of the new central government. So how would religion work if we were actually a confederated government? The way I see it, some states would have initially have had more religious freedom than others. However, as time went on, the less free states would have been positively influenced by the more free states and would have become bastions of religious liberty themselves. Overall, I think genuine Christianity would have thrived under this arrangement. For our purposes today, I think it would be instructive to see what a revamped 21st century version of the Articles of Confederation would look like. Maybe Bill Collier could put his version on Kingdom Insight for us.

James said:

To Steve Belttari,

I am curious.How would religion work in your confederated government.

[Steve Belttari]

I can't handle apes and men sharing a common ancestor, like I can't handle 2+2=5, it just isn't true. To stay with the Christian nation theme, I look at the United States as being like a backsliden Christian, it got off to a good start(American Revolutionary War) but then drifted of course because of bad influences(U.S. Constitution). The only reason most people believe in evolution, is because that's what they were indoctrinated to believe. This can be overcome though: "We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle to the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to Christ."

James said:

LOL, Gap theory for you I see. I find all the different creation theories very humorous. Ya all won't believe in evolution covering billions of years yet have not problem with it happening very fast,after the flood. ie evolution of language in humans, evolution of humans races,spread of animalsaround the earth after flood, and evolution of continents, to which 78% of american adults believe. 78% thats cool,and far more then know the sun revolves around the earth.

Theory of evolution is the least of your problems,Many more theories need tobe added to the NO NO list for Christians.Theory of elements,theory of plate tectonics,theory of radioactive decay, theory of infectious diseases,theory of earth magnetic field and theory of medicine to name but a few.

I was wondering do creatlist get flu shots, or vaccinate their children?

The Clergy Letter Project is an organization that has created and maintains a statement signed by American Christian clergy of different denominations rejecting creationism, with specific reference to points raised by intelligent design proponents. It has 12,669 signatures as of 8/19/10).
http://blue.butler.edu/~mzimmerm/rel_evol_sun.htm

why can't you handle apes and man sharing a common ancestor? In no way should it take away from your faith. Bible says the moon makes its own light.Do you believe that? Many be you should.

Steve Belttari said:

Just stating a fact about the United States having a state religion. Even if the theory of evolution is true(which it is not), evolutionary humanism would still be a state religion that the constitutional strong central government has produced. We have already had a long, tedious creation-evolution discussion on Kingdom Insight. If we did not have a state religion, this discussion would not be necessary. God created the earth billions of years ago, 6000 years ago He recreated the earth and created man, this is what God's Word teaches.

James said:

Like it or not the earth is billions of years old tand Evolution is full of facts. There is only one country in the world that has any where the umber of creationist as the USA and that is a Muslim run country of Turkey.

In my book that is nothing to be proud of.

Steve Belttari said:

Instead of churches being incorporated into the state, they would truly be the Ekklesia(called out ones of God), that is all I meant by "genuine Christianity". Without having a big government that the Constitution produced, we would also not have a state religion(evolutionary humanism) which also confuses the true worship of God in Spirit and in truth.

James said:

In reallalty we are as free to choice a religion now then we would ever be under a confederated government. Less free states as you put it,would arm themselfs to defend there form of religion to the death. No matter the faith history teaches us that people of faith if backed into a corner feel justified to do some very crure,down right nasty things.

What is your definition of genuine Christianity? This is going to be interesting.

Steve Belttari said:

In theory, we already are supposed to be a confederated government, that is what federalism is after all. The word anti-Federalist was used by the Federalists to denigrate their oppostion, meaning they(anti-Federalists) were against federalism. The anti-Federalists were not against federalism per se, what they were against was a new consolidated nation with a strong central government. So as the constitutional convention deliberated in secret, one of the committees voted 7 to 3 in favor of a new national government where the states(nations) were no longer sovereign. As things played out, to get their radical agenda ratified by the states, the Federalists had to acquiesce to a Bill of Rights, which gave the appearance of a confederated(federal) government, but in reality the states(nations) were now administative units of the new central government. So how would religion work if we were actually a confederated government? The way I see it, some states would have initially have had more religious freedom than others. However, as time went on, the less free states would have been positively influenced by the more free states and would have become bastions of religious liberty themselves. Overall, I think genuine Christianity would have thrived under this arrangement. For our purposes today, I think it would be instructive to see what a revamped 21st century version of the Articles of Confederation would look like. Maybe Bill Collier could put his version on Kingdom Insight for us.

James said:

To Steve Belttari,

I am curious.How would religion work in your confederated government.

[James]

LOL, Gap theory for you I see. I find all the different creation theories very humorous. Ya all won't believe in evolution covering billions of years yet have not problem with it happening very fast,after the flood. ie evolution of language in humans, evolution of humans races,spread of animalsaround the earth after flood, and evolution of continents, to which 78% of american adults believe. 78% thats cool,and far more then know the sun revolves around the earth.

Theory of evolution is the least of your problems,Many more theories need tobe added to the NO NO list for Christians.Theory of elements,theory of plate tectonics,theory of radioactive decay, theory of infectious diseases,theory of earth magnetic field and theory of medicine to name but a few.

I was wondering do creatlist get flu shots, or vaccinate their children?

The Clergy Letter Project is an organization that has created and maintains a statement signed by American Christian clergy of different denominations rejecting creationism, with specific reference to points raised by intelligent design proponents. It has 12,669 signatures as of 8/19/10).
http://blue.butler.edu/~mzimmerm/rel_evol_sun.htm

why can't you handle apes and man sharing a common ancestor? In no way should it take away from your faith. Bible says the moon makes its own light.Do you believe that? Many be you should.

Steve Belttari said:

Just stating a fact about the United States having a state religion. Even if the theory of evolution is true(which it is not), evolutionary humanism would still be a state religion that the constitutional strong central government has produced. We have already had a long, tedious creation-evolution discussion on Kingdom Insight. If we did not have a state religion, this discussion would not be necessary. God created the earth billions of years ago, 6000 years ago He recreated the earth and created man, this is what God's Word teaches.

James said:

Like it or not the earth is billions of years old tand Evolution is full of facts. There is only one country in the world that has any where the umber of creationist as the USA and that is a Muslim run country of Turkey.

In my book that is nothing to be proud of.

Steve Belttari said:

Instead of churches being incorporated into the state, they would truly be the Ekklesia(called out ones of God), that is all I meant by "genuine Christianity". Without having a big government that the Constitution produced, we would also not have a state religion(evolutionary humanism) which also confuses the true worship of God in Spirit and in truth.

James said:

In reallalty we are as free to choice a religion now then we would ever be under a confederated government. Less free states as you put it,would arm themselfs to defend there form of religion to the death. No matter the faith history teaches us that people of faith if backed into a corner feel justified to do some very crure,down right nasty things.

What is your definition of genuine Christianity? This is going to be interesting.

Steve Belttari said:

In theory, we already are supposed to be a confederated government, that is what federalism is after all. The word anti-Federalist was used by the Federalists to denigrate their oppostion, meaning they(anti-Federalists) were against federalism. The anti-Federalists were not against federalism per se, what they were against was a new consolidated nation with a strong central government. So as the constitutional convention deliberated in secret, one of the committees voted 7 to 3 in favor of a new national government where the states(nations) were no longer sovereign. As things played out, to get their radical agenda ratified by the states, the Federalists had to acquiesce to a Bill of Rights, which gave the appearance of a confederated(federal) government, but in reality the states(nations) were now administative units of the new central government. So how would religion work if we were actually a confederated government? The way I see it, some states would have initially have had more religious freedom than others. However, as time went on, the less free states would have been positively influenced by the more free states and would have become bastions of religious liberty themselves. Overall, I think genuine Christianity would have thrived under this arrangement. For our purposes today, I think it would be instructive to see what a revamped 21st century version of the Articles of Confederation would look like. Maybe Bill Collier could put his version on Kingdom Insight for us.

James said:

To Steve Belttari,

I am curious.How would religion work in your confederated government.

[Steve Belttari]

Just stating a fact about the United States having a state religion. Even if the theory of evolution is true(which it is not), evolutionary humanism would still be a state religion that the constitutional strong central government has produced. We have already had a long, tedious creation-evolution discussion on Kingdom Insight. If we did not have a state religion, this discussion would not be necessary. God created the earth billions of years ago, 6000 years ago He recreated the earth and created man, this is what God's Word teaches.

James said:

Like it or not the earth is billions of years old tand Evolution is full of facts. There is only one country in the world that has any where the umber of creationist as the USA and that is a Muslim run country of Turkey.

In my book that is nothing to be proud of.

Steve Belttari said:

Instead of churches being incorporated into the state, they would truly be the Ekklesia(called out ones of God), that is all I meant by "genuine Christianity". Without having a big government that the Constitution produced, we would also not have a state religion(evolutionary humanism) which also confuses the true worship of God in Spirit and in truth.

James said:

In reallalty we are as free to choice a religion now then we would ever be under a confederated government. Less free states as you put it,would arm themselfs to defend there form of religion to the death. No matter the faith history teaches us that people of faith if backed into a corner feel justified to do some very crure,down right nasty things.

What is your definition of genuine Christianity? This is going to be interesting.

Steve Belttari said:

In theory, we already are supposed to be a confederated government, that is what federalism is after all. The word anti-Federalist was used by the Federalists to denigrate their oppostion, meaning they(anti-Federalists) were against federalism. The anti-Federalists were not against federalism per se, what they were against was a new consolidated nation with a strong central government. So as the constitutional convention deliberated in secret, one of the committees voted 7 to 3 in favor of a new national government where the states(nations) were no longer sovereign. As things played out, to get their radical agenda ratified by the states, the Federalists had to acquiesce to a Bill of Rights, which gave the appearance of a confederated(federal) government, but in reality the states(nations) were now administative units of the new central government. So how would religion work if we were actually a confederated government? The way I see it, some states would have initially have had more religious freedom than others. However, as time went on, the less free states would have been positively influenced by the more free states and would have become bastions of religious liberty themselves. Overall, I think genuine Christianity would have thrived under this arrangement. For our purposes today, I think it would be instructive to see what a revamped 21st century version of the Articles of Confederation would look like. Maybe Bill Collier could put his version on Kingdom Insight for us.

James said:

To Steve Belttari,

I am curious.How would religion work in your confederated government.