So is the earth new? Is it old? Just what is meant by new and old?
Please explain which you think and why. Show why you think it can be supported by doctrine.
What is the big deal?
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Hi Francis. Thank you very much for the link. I will spend some time browsing and pondering and mybe try to jump in if I can. The wonderful thing about Truth [personified] is it loves to be cross-examined. Truth shines brighter under cross-examination and all other narratives collapse as questions are asked that the narrative ignores such as if we have an expanding universe and all bodies are moving away from us at the same speed, we must have been the big bang. On an XYZ grapth, it's angular trajectory.
But all of that ends up being verbal sparring. I think the word demon means knowledge. The dumbest demon wouldn't have the slightest problem debating me under the table. Now I am not calling an opponent a demon, but every physical manifestation has supernatural roots.
In Scripture, where it says, "The love of money is the root of all evil." That translation is a misnomer. The word is mammon or barter. "What's in it for me?" We have a whole academic structure following after a Godless model for the rewards of doing so or the consequences of not doing so. But my and every Christian's bottom line is, "When this bullet train called life stops at my stop, I have to get off all by myself."
I love to learn about God's Creation. I wish there were more Christian Astromers or Astrophysicists, I would love to learn from them, but I have no interest in Godless Evolutionary Sophistry. It's never the data, but the interpretation of data that one is anchored to.
"In the beginning was the Word..." that word is logos, where we get the word logic. We are made in the image of God, that is we can integrate thought like Him. All Engineering and all Architecture starts with logos-logic-Context>Blueprints, As Builts, Schematics..
Our intelligence was given to us as a tool. We can use it however we like. We can try to learn from God, we can accuse Him or try to disprove Him. It is our choice. But it won't affect Him at all. It will only affect us.
I am the most flawed creature on the planet. I make more mistakes than most of the people on the planet. The other day I thought I was answering a post, but my answer was to the wrong post and I hurt someone's feelings over it. I cried myself to sleep. I love people. We are all flawed and we are all in the same boat.
Satan's promotion of Evolution is to persuade the human race that Scripture's answer to three questions aren't true; Who did it, when it was done and why it was done. If God doesn't exist, I have no one to call to for help and Satan has a free hand in killing my hope, destroying my purpose for being here and damning my soul.
The evolution narrative has contributed nothing to benefiting the human race. Like the Greek Sophists, it fills libraries full of storybook narrative toasting the emperors new clothes. Every benefit to man has come from "In the beginning was the Word." The automobile, the computer...integration of thought to application or purpose. Thinking logically like a Design Engineer. We are made in the image of God and only when we apply that image do we benefit man.
I'm sorry I talked so long and I will always agree to disagree if we need to and we can be friends forever. I live in a very fragile glass house, so I try never to throw rocks. You don't have to look very far to see my flaws. I guess my whole point is our eternity is at stake, so it is in our best interest to do a little study on our own. If Jesus will let me tag along as flawed as I am, no one else witll have a problem.
Thanks
Mark
Francis Thomas said:
Mark Edward Kroger said:
Hi Lisa and Everybody.
I can prove Intelligent Design through The Science of Context and The Lens of the Integrated Whole-analytic engineering science, http://www.thereflectionhouse.com/The_Science_of_Context.htm
But my views on the age of the cosmos and the earth are pure opinion. I am anchored to Scripture, but we have lost the depth and layering of Scripture in translation from Greek/Hebrew to Heinz 57 English.
I am anchored to the fall about 6000 years ago. Without the fall, the Cross would have no significance. The Bible says The Lord streched out the heavens, an event not a process. Albert Einstein proved curved space and that explains The Red Shift. Any date setting is arbitrary and circulrar reasoning. If it is this far away, it took this long..
Radiometric age dating is so consisently inconsistent, they have to "calibrate the sample". Whether it is Potassium/Argon or Uranium/Lead, there is always too much daughter element. Before a geologist will age date a sample, the paleoentologist has to fill out a sheet stating where they found it, how deep it was, what bones were found and how old the paleoentologist believes the sample to be. The geologist then 'calibrates the sample' choose a narrative to interpret the data to validate the narrative. This is the way age dating is done each and every time.
A potassium/argon sample in a blind test was age dated to be 200 million years old. The sample was from an eruption of a volcano on the large island of Hawaii documented to be less than two hundred years ago.
If one wants evolution to sound plausible, they need long, long times. Never mind it is scientifically impossible to randomly generate context driven integration-it's in the above paper.
The sun is shrinking at a rate of 8 to 10 miles in diameter a year. It is expending its fuel and collapsing on itself. Transposing that back in time, we don't have to go back too far to see the earth would be molten rock and millions of years old dinosaurs is a myth.
Schools and Universities don't teach the evolution narrative because teachers and Professors believe it. They teach it because accreditation and tenure requires them to.
Job says the Lord passes us by and we know it not. In 2D flatland, Mr. Square lost the key to his safe. He needed a paper out of the safe, but no one in flatland could open it. Mr. circle shows up and says he can retrive the paper. He rotates through the plain and reaches inside. Mr. circle is really Mr. Sphere. We are dealing with concepts so deep, we don't know how much we don't know.
The foolishness of God is greater than the wisdom of man.
Academic Professionals that write papers have to deal with things most of us don't. In order to get papers published in all the right journals and get invited to all the right symposiums, get invited to the right clubs and get on the right lists, the have a vested interest in being socially and politically correct.
They are very intelligent and give the narrative the appearance that it can work. But as it is said, "The devil is in the details." The automobile and the computer did not evolve. They are applications of knowledge gained, each being an intergrated whole. IT techs are discovering the interdependencies that have to be satisfied to bring software driven dynamic hardware online. We are context driven integrated physics. Without the dense gravational field of the earth, the quarks that make up our protons and neutrons of our atoms that make up the modular composition of our integrated dynamic structure, there could be no life. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says quarks decay unless recharged-The Law of Entropy. Our dynamic quarks are recharged from the earth's gravitional field. We don't know how much we don't know. We serve an awesome God.
Thanks for listening. I love to talk about God.
Mark
We have living trees that are 9550 years old,found in the Swedish mountain.
There are ice core samples that go back a million years.
The oldest rocks which have been found so far (on the Earth) date to about 3.8 to 3.9 billion years ago (by several radiometric dating methods). Some of these rocks are sedimentary, and include minerals which are themselves as old as 4.1 to 4.2 billion years. Rocks of this age are relatively rare, however rocks that are at least 3.5 billion years in age have been found on North America, Greenland, Australia, Africa, and Asia.
Most people have heard of the Matterhorn mountain border between Switzerland and Italy. What most people don't know is that the top 1/3 of the mountain is from Africa. Thats right, around 90 million years ago, the African continental plate slid over the top of the European plate. As the edge of the African plate pushed upward, the Matterhorn was born. Millions of years of erosion did the rest.
On what basis? Do you have any evidence to support what other minds have confirmed. You don't. You just have a wild imagination.
Christians are extremely bold in our defense of the evidence and for good reason. There is no other explanation that can explain the evidence. You have to go and engage your own wild imagination to divert from the evidence because you don't have any evidence that is contrary to the evidence we have the resurrection.
Dr. Gary Habermas elucidated the problem very effectively. He recently asked a group of atheist to explain the facts of the resurrection on a naturalistic basis.
These historical facts are: (1) Jesus was killed by crucifixion; (2) Jesus’ disciples believed that he rose and appeared to them; (3) The conversion of the church persecutor Saul, who became the Apostle Paul; (4) the conversion of the skeptic James, Jesus’ half-brother; (5) The empty tomb of Jesus. These “minimal facts” are strongly evidenced and are regarded as historical by the vast majority of scholars, including skeptics, who have written about the resurrection in French, German, and English since 1975. While the fifth fact doesn’t have quite the same virtual universal consensus, it nevertheless is conceded by 75 percent of the scholars and is well supported by the historical data if assessed without preconceptions.
The challenge presented by Habermas was the exact same conclusion I reached while in college. A argument cannot be made to explain the facts on a naturalistic basis. I read vociferously trying to find a good argument. I came to the conclusion that a good reasonable argument does not exist!
Habermas then continues by showing that peer reviewed material is demonstrating that over 75% of NT scholars believe that the evidence overwhelmingly supports the resurrection.
John Loftus who is an Atheist recently was promoting a book by Kris Komarnitsky that claims to provide a response to the challenge of Habermas.
Kris Komarnitsky concludes that cognitive dissonance solution is the best naturalistic explanation of the resurrection of Christ. The cognitive dissonance solution says that the followers of Christ made something up in order to overcome their grief over the loss of their friend Jesus. In other words, the disciples were in a state of denial and overcame that denial by believing a lie.
The best atheist argument falls flat because it does not explain the conversion of James who is the half brother of Jesus or the empty tomb.
If you read the material in detail, you will discover that atheist have to go through a great deal of mental gymnastics in order discount the resurrection. How is it possible that first century uneducated people were able to make such powerful argument? The ironic thing is that the above facts are casually included without concern for their implications meaning their was no clear intent to make the argument; rather, they are simply telling us what happened.
It was amazing to me since every legend I read from the ancient world could easily be explained away without a second thought.
Based on the evidence, the only possible conclusion is that Christianity is true and that Christ rose from the dead.
You simply don't have an argument. If you ever want a good laugh, just read some higher criticism. They are all over the place because they have no facts to justify their skepticism. It is a lot of fun to read for certain.
We now have Christians offering hundreds of thousands of dollars for any evidence that will falsify the resurrection. No such evidence has come forward. Even your skeptism is based on the imagination and you provide no evidence that falsifies the resurrection.
The evidence is all there for everyone to see and the experts agree that the resurrection is a scientific fact.
God Bless...
Good, you are on your way to being a Christian then. It is a scientific fact... Your skeptism is unjustified. You would have to provide justification for your skeptism as well as falsification of the evidence which you have failed to do. You would have to falsify the entire New Testament as well as all the secular sources that also speak to this historical fact.
Atheist always think they can be skeptical without evidence; however, skepticism has to be based on evidence (countervailing evidence) of which you have none! Once again, my belief is based on undisputed evidence! Your belief is based on the imagination which fails to justify your skeptism.
GOOD LUCK!! LOL
ZDENNY said:
Actually, you won't accept any evidence because you limit evidence to that which fits your ideology. The evidence for the resurrection is overwhelming having been confirmed by multiple minds; however, the evidence isn't good enough. You have even stated that even if you had seen the risen Lord yourself, you would have to deny your own experience. The only evidence you accept is what another atheist tells you to think. Of course, who tells that other atheist what to think, another atheist...ad infinitum...
You are funny and your arguments are always a good laugh...
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