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I was wondering which of the many arguments for God (Cosmological, Teleological etc) people found most convincing, or is it the combination of many arguments?


 


Personally I find the Cosmological Argument the most convincing (although it is clearly flawed and I have remained an Atheist) due to the comparative lack of understanding about the origins of our Universe.


 


I suspect that this will turn into a discussion into the validity of the arguments, but discussions will be beneficial for both believers and non-believers, so I would highly encourage people to critique the
arguments.



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 People say the same thing about abortions. No one is forcing people to get abortions yet many feel strongly in stopping all abortions.

 

If the Unicorn people wanted to end all meat eating and had growing numbers of supporters to maybe pull it off you would do nothing?

 

 Would not matter what proof you had anyway, they would blow you off as a non believing fool. Just like some creation believeing christians do. For evolution is proven right.
Rob said:

If I choose to care and choose to go to one of their websites and choose to tell them their belief is wrong, the burden will be firmly on me. Why do I care that you do not believe in the same God that I do? I feel no burden to prove anything to you. You came here of your own choice. No one forced you. It is preposterous that you demand anything from me or from anyone on this site.

Surely the burden of proof is universal, regardless of what position the website takes. What if the discussion was on a neutral website? Would that mean that both sides had the burden of proof, or neither of them? That makes no sense.

 

You should care that I do not believe in the same God that you do, because the Christian god will supposedly send me to Hell to be tortured for eternity if I don't believe in him. I'm not forcing you to give me a good justification for belief, I'm simply asking you to. You also came here of your own choice, so if you don't want to answer my question then don't comment.

 

If you're making a positive claim then I don't see how it is "preposterous" for me to ask you to justify it; I'm the reincarnation of Jesus, question my claim and I'll call your challenge preposterous....


Rob said:

If I choose to care and choose to go to one of their websites and choose to tell them their belief is wrong, the burden will be firmly on me. Why do I care that you do not believe in the same God that I do? I feel no burden to prove anything to you. You came here of your own choice. No one forced you. It is preposterous that you demand anything from me or from anyone on this site.

I'm assuming that as a Christian you believe the teachings of the Bible to be true. I accept that you believe that a god exists, what I'm asking for is your justification.

 

"When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on him or her making a claim."

 
Rob said:

Still I disagree. You came here and I still feel no burden. Did I ever say you will go to hell to be tortured? I don't believe that...you are assuming. I have answered your questions...every one of them. What have I not answered? Maybe you just did not like the answer I gave and want a different one. You can make any claim you want. You can start a website based on that claim. I most likely will not go to it and if I did I would not demand you give me proof. I will just accept that you believe it.
Thanks, while I disagree I'm grateful for your respectful manner, it makes a nice change from some of the discussions I've been having elsewhere.

Rob said:
I am going to respectfully walk away from this one. It seems pointless to argue with you. I don't feel the burden...that simple. If I am wrong and the burden is mine then so be it. I just don't feel it and am getting bored with this.
You too!

Rob said:
Yeah...I don't think either of us were budging on this one! It is nice that we can have a respectful argument...on that we agree. Have a happy new year!

I have a technical argument http://www.thereflectionhouse.com/The_Science_of_Context.htm I have a theological argument The Riddle of the Cross http://www.thereflectionhouse.com/riddle/riddle.htm I have an argument that shows each of us, this is much more than verbal sparring Heaven and Hell http://www.thereflectionhouse.com/heavenandhell/heavenandhell.htm .

 

While some were saved at an early age, I was not. It took me until I was 42 even with a lot of head knowledge about God. Very few wake up and say, "The third thing on my list today is to get saved." Instead it is usually "Jesus, Help!" He was pursuing us not vice versa.

 

I know the cure for cancer, but I took down the page. Cancer gives a person time to reflect and prepare for eternity, so in some ways for some people, it is the greatest blessing the Lord could allow into their life. Once one falls into Sheol, it is too late.

 

I love people and I know what it took me to reach out and call upon Jesus, so I try to encourage and I pray without ceasing. One plants, one waters, but the Lord makes it grow.

 

What most unsaved don't realize is Christians aren't reaching out to the lost to benefit themselves; it's just the opposite. They are willing to sacrifice for others because of what Jesus really sacrificed for them. They don't want to see the lost fall into Sheol, "His sons come to visit and he knows it not." "He screams but his cries are not heard."

 

There are many arguments about Sheol. This is mine. Sheol is a place created to honor choice. If one does not want God, that will be honored. But such a place will also be void of his attributes. Love, Mercy, Grace, Peace... Instead Rage, Hopelessness, Extreme Terror, Despair... That is the choice we are making here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mark!

Nice post.

Thanks for sharing!

Mark Edward Kroger said:

I have a technical argument http://www.thereflectionhouse.com/The_Science_of_Context.htm I have a theological argument The Riddle of the Cross http://www.thereflectionhouse.com/riddle/riddle.htm I have an argument that shows each of us, this is much more than verbal sparring Heaven and Hell http://www.thereflectionhouse.com/heavenandhell/heavenandhell.htm .

 

While some were saved at an early age, I was not. It took me until I was 42 even with a lot of head knowledge about God. Very few wake up and say, "The third thing on my list today is to get saved." Instead it is usually "Jesus, Help!" He was pursuing us not vice versa.

 

I know the cure for cancer, but I took down the page. Cancer gives a person time to reflect and prepare for eternity, so in some ways for some people, it is the greatest blessing the Lord could allow into their life. Once one falls into Sheol, it is too late.

 

I love people and I know what it took me to reach out and call upon Jesus, so I try to encourage and I pray without ceasing. One plants, one waters, but the Lord makes it grow.

 

What most unsaved don't realize is Christians aren't reaching out to the lost to benefit themselves; it's just the opposite. They are willing to sacrifice for others because of what Jesus really sacrificed for them. They don't want to see the lost fall into Sheol, "His sons come to visit and he knows it not." "He screams but his cries are not heard."

 

There are many arguments about Sheol. This is mine. Sheol is a place created to honor choice. If one does not want God, that will be honored. But such a place will also be void of his attributes. Love, Mercy, Grace, Peace... Instead Rage, Hopelessness, Extreme Terror, Despair... That is the choice we are making here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Juanita. I appreciate the reply.

I should have mentioned, use Internet Explorer to view the last two pages as they are Javascript and only IE plays them right.

If we plant the seeds and pray over them, the Lord will do the same for them as He did for us.

Thanks again, Juanita.

Mark

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