Was There A Snake in the Garden? :-))

[Mark Edward Kroger]

Hi Brothers and Sisters in Christ and Friends.

I have pondered on whether to try on this thought here. Please don't label me as a heretic. :-))

First some background. I love the Lord. I am anchored to Scripture. I strongly dislike the Godless model of natural man's worldview.

If natural man told me a black cat crossed the road and I was looking at the cat and it looked black, it would still be suspect. They did something to the cat! :-))

Going back in time to the Garden. I believe God built the first language in Adam a pro to Hebrew; character base, format, context. I believe every language in existence is a derivative of it in the same way the first genetic database was in Adam and we are all physically descendant of Adam. When we translate God took a rib from Adam, "curve bone" I think we lost translation/understanding of what God did. It has to do with the difference between the sexes both physically, mentally and spiritually. Mathew 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh.

I heard a sermon from http:/www.mountainwings.com on a curved bone male mammals have that man doesn't.

So a lot of what we take for granted may actually go a lot deeper. Pure Hebrew being all constants and on vowels with letters assigned a number, is deep, layered and rich.

Visualized Adam walking and talking with God-not God the Father, God the Son, The Word. No man has seen the Father at any time and all things were made by the Word.

Adam walking with God would have seen angels coming and going all the time; there was no separation, no barrier, no veil.

Now imagine this being showing up different from every angel they had seen and he is talking directly to them. God had granted this being his wish to be totally absorbed in self. His voice was deep and hypnotic, he shimmered a metallic shimmer as he faded in and out of time. He was sensual and mesmerizing.

Up to this point all that Adam knew was what God told him. Like when a person is hired on a company and someone takes him on a tour and gives him the lowdown, the inside scoop and this person views things that way until someone else says, "Be careful of listening to him." Now that person has questions.

When Adam chose to listen to Lucifer, Adam put a new head over the human race and Adam's inheritance went to Lucifer. Lucifer's curse went to Adam. A legal transaction. God honored that choice.

The being God was talking to was a fallen angel. We use metaphors such as "You will fall flat on your face."

This is what I think God told Satan. "Everything you try to do, the undoing will be by your hand. Everything you try to undo, the doing will be by your hand. That which I declare, you will fulfill. When you try to prevent it, it will be you that establishes it. Your works will bring Me Glory, not you."

I think Joseph was a fulfillment of that declaration. God gave Joseph two dreams and Joseph, young and dumb, is parading them in front of his father and brothers. Demons were listening. "Is this the Promised One?"

They're going to stop these dreams in their tracks by getting Joseph out of town. Joseph spends 11 years in Potifer's house and Potifer rises to prominence. Joseph has the Midas touch. All of Egypt has heard about this Hebrew slave. Demons think in terms of pomp and glitter, so they think Pharaoh is going to get wind of this and Joseph is going to be promoted to the palace.

So they give Potifer's wife the hots for Joseph. If he succumbs, he's done for, if he doesn't he's done for. Checkmate.

Joseph goes to prison for two years. In the meantime, sow/reap sets in motion in Potifer's house. Potifer's wife has slept with all the slaves but Joseph as the sun god Ra [demons] is a god of lust. Potifer's house falls to ruin. God has provided contrast, this is what you get with Me and this is what you get without me. I'll show you why I believe this in a moment.

Joseph's Midas touch continues in prison. Noticeably so. Everybody in the palace has heard of Joseph and what happened to Potifer.

Joseph tells the cup bearer and the baker what is about to happen. When the butler is restored Joseph tells him to remember him, "for I have done nothing to deserve this". He's hurting and he doesn't understand why God would allow this to happen to him."

Two years later, Potifer in ruin, Pharaoh's prison blessed, Pharaoh has a dream. Joseph's gift for dream interpretation gets him an audience, but it is his resume' that gets him the job.

It's the only thing that makes sense. Pharaoh may be impressed with Joseph, but he's scared to death of his God.

Our Lord would have no problem at all giving a snake legs and the ability to make speech and the foolishness of God is greater than the wisdom of man.

But I wondered, "What is the Lord teaching me here?"

Just a thought...:-))

Don't beat me up, just pray for me.:-))

What do ya think?

Mark

[Mark Edward Kroger]

Hi Steve,

When I posted my ponderings on the snake, I never thought it would generate this much response. Wahoo! But mine is still coming in a poor third to James' two which have taken a commanding lead :-(( Oh well, maybe I can think of something real controversial... on second thought, I'll get some body armor first. :-))

Have a great day, Steve!

Mark

 

[Steve Belttari]

     Satan is not omniscient, so he did not understand that God was going to defeat him by becoming a man(Jesus Christ), dying on a cross, and then being resurrected from the dead.   As far as the timing of the previous social system being destroyed, since God in His wisdom chose not to reveal in scripture exactly when this occurred, I think sometime in the distant past before God recreated the earth 6000 years ago, is about as accurate as we can get. 

Lisa said:

Ok I'll agree that God destroyed a previous social system.  Not sure I agree with the timing.  We could argue that for day and get nowhere. 

Have no doubt that the Lord defeated satan with what to him must have been the odd turn of events of Jesus on the cross. 

Could the demons and Satan have been having a celebration, shouting "we got Him, we got Him. finally He is beaten we can reign!"  Then suddenly He rises and they are defeated, stuck with only accusing the brethren and trying to limit them.  Even this may fail because after all God is in control. 

[Lisa]

Ok I'll agree that God destroyed a previous social system.  Not sure I agree with the timing.  We could argue that for day and get nowhere. 

Have no doubt that the Lord defeated satan with what to him must have been the odd turn of events of Jesus on the cross. 

Could the demons and Satan have been having a celebration, shouting "we got Him, we got Him. finally He is beaten we can reign!"  Then suddenly He rises and they are defeated, stuck with only accusing the brethren and trying to limit them.  Even this may fail because after all God is in control. 

[Steve Belttari]

     Lisa,

     "As sparks fly upward a man is born into trouble" as it says in the book of Job.  Jesus said that "in this world you will have tribulations, but fear not, I have overcome the world".  Jesus Christ has indeed overcome the world's system, the Devil and the flesh.  Genesis 3 vs 15 prophesies Lucifers defeat.  He has already been defeated by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, he knows his days are numbered so he wants to bring as many people down with him as possible.   2 Pet 3 vs 8 says that a 1000 years is like a day to the Lord, so in God's timetable it has only been 2 days since Christ defeated the Devil.  I think people should understand that God destroyed the social system that was in the earth billions of years ago, because it is a doctrine that is taught in the Bible.   I feel that I have to be authoritative in teaching this, remember what they said about Jesus, "unlike the scribes and the pharisees Jesus taught with authority".   When I first learned the truth many years ago, people would say to me that this is not an essential truth for salvation so I should not make to big a deal about it.  Over time I have learned that there seems to be a whole lot of those truths that are not essential for salvation.  I have learned that it is more about "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightlt dividing the Word of Truth".  If people were to give the study of the Bible the same degree of priority that they do their studies for a career, they for sure would not find this a difficult truth to understand.

     isa said:

Interesting thoughts.  Is certainly true that the Lord works bad situations for His good though at times we do not understand what is going on.   Hard to tell what he actually told Lucifer but that is an intruiging idea.   It certainly seems to be what happens in the end.

Whatever was in the garden certainly did not freak Eve out.  Seems that remnant characters of a hip or shoulder on a snake would make sense if started as upright and then was cursed to slither.   Need to double check the truth of this one.  How this differs from other reptiles or what it looked like pre-curse I do not understand. 

[Mark Edward Kroger]

Hi Lisa,

Thanks so much for the reply. As we share with each other and collectively look to the Lord, the Lord fills in our missing pieces. I don't do anything for the Lord nearly as much as I should. I fall short in every area. I want everyone to know the Lord loves and works with flawed people.

"It is the glory of God to conceai a thing and the honor of kings to search out a matter." "But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding." [Job 32:8] We each have our favorite Scriptures, stories or lessons in the Bible. As we let each other know we are not accusing God or challenging Him in any way, just searching for a deeper understanding, you might share something you have picked up and vice versa and we help fill in each other's missing pieces. "Where two [or more] are gathered in My Name..." "Knock and it shall be opened unto you..."

Mine started when I wondered what God was telling His once beloved Cherub, not whether the Lord could make a snake walk and talk. The Lord stretched out space as an event so time and distance have no relationship pertaining to origins. Godless natural man can listen to the prince of the world if he wants, I [we] want to learn from the Author.

Demons thought if we can get Joseph away from his father and brothers, he will never be able to rule over them. What they didn't realize is the father and brothers would go to him and willingly submit. A chessmaster playing The Chessmaster. If I play chess with a demon, I am checkmated before the game gets warmed up, but if I say, "Jesus, the door bell rang and it's for you..." the demon will have to answer, "Sorry, wrong house.."

When God told Jonah to Nineveh, I wondered why Jonah ran. It is easy to pray for someone who is good to you, but it is not so easy to pray for someone who has made your life miserable. God didn't pick someone who loved Nineveh, He picked someone who had been hurt by Nineveh. I wondered why.

I think it has to do with the king of Nineveh's answer, "Perhaps if we repent..." an amazing answer considering Nineveh had many demigods and the Hebrew god was considered a lesser god-no statues. "It takes the build, to make the presentation." God is going to use demons to make the build, to give His presentation meaning.

All that happened aboard that ship, the sailors were witnesses. Jonah died [Jonah 2:2] I believe the sailors detoured and went to Nineveh and told their sailors' tale. When Jonah shows up, his skin white as a sheet from the whales enzymes, he looks as someone who has been raised from the dead, He has. Before that king could say, "Perhaps if we repent..." he had to first say, "Their is no god like this God." "That which I declare, you will fulfill. When you try to prevent it, it will be you who establishes it. Your works will bring Me Glory." We serve an Awesome God.

Thanks Lisa,

Mark


Lisa said:

Interesting thoughts.  Is certainly true that the Lord works bad situations for His good though at times we do not understand what is going on.   Hard to tell what he actually told Lucifer but that is an intruiging idea.   It certainly seems to be what happens in the end.

Whatever was in the garden certainly did not freak Eve out.  Seems that remnant characters of a hip or shoulder on a snake would make sense if started as upright and then was cursed to slither.   Need to double check the truth of this one.  How this differs from other reptiles or what it looked like pre-curse I do not understand. 

[Lisa]

Interesting thoughts.  Is certainly true that the Lord works bad situations for His good though at times we do not understand what is going on.   Hard to tell what he actually told Lucifer but that is an intruiging idea.   It certainly seems to be what happens in the end.

Whatever was in the garden certainly did not freak Eve out.  Seems that remnant characters of a hip or shoulder on a snake would make sense if started as upright and then was cursed to slither.   Need to double check the truth of this one.  How this differs from other reptiles or what it looked like pre-curse I do not understand. 

[Mark Edward Kroger]

Hi Steve,

That is an awesome testamony. It was a witness to that person that Jesus was working in you and through you, and it was a sweet savour before the throne of the Most High. Joseph spent 13 years and it didn't look like, as devoted as he was to the Lord, any doors were opening for him, but he went from pit to palace in a moment.

And we may not know our full impact on this side, but we are each a pebble creating ripples. Like the movie Working Girl, when she was promoted, she took the elevator to her floor and automatically took the secretary's seat and the young woman standing there said, "What are you doing? That's not your desk; yours is in there."

We are each impacting people, others may not be able to reach, but the Lord can promote us in a moment and we know when we get home our investments here will pay eternal dividends. I didn't start making investments in the Kingdom Bank until I was 42, but I am so grateful, He allowed me to start.

Even if someone is saved on the way out, it would be awesome and worth eternal rejoicing, but investments will count greatly. 

When I was first saved, I was so grateful, but I didn't understand why my mom and sisters watched TBN and inspiration stations all the time. I thought God doesn't require us to do that, He wants us to still have a life. So even though I was redeemed, I still had a lot of the old life in me>scary movies, hero shoots the bad guy, the girl to die for and etc. The Lord never took any of that away. As I got to know Him and wanted to learn more about Him and from Him, most of the other stuff just disappeared. Before I thought life would be boring with the other stuff gone, but I am a lot closer now to joy being a state of being. I still have to take a lot of classes over, but now I know why. Before I would say, "Why is this always happening to me?"

I am sure God is not through opening doors for us, all of us, yet.

Thanks Steve

Mark 

Steve Belttari said:

     The apostle Paul says in 1 Tim 1vs 12 that it was Jesus that enabled him, counted him faithful and put him into the ministry.  We really do need to be enabled by God to serve Him.  Nowhere is this more evident then in the area of forgiveness.  The natural man will have an unforgiving grudge against someone who has wronged him.  Only God can change your heart and He will test you to see if you are faithful.  Without going into to many details, someone I know caused me a lot of problems 10 years ago, I wasn't on speaking terms with him for most of the 1st decade of the 21st century.  He recently started a new career as a film producer, his first film is on racism in USA Today's most racist city in America.  He had his house torched by someone who was enabled by the police department of the most racist city in America.  He came to me for help, if God had not changed my heart I would have inwardly gloated over his disaster, and outwardly lectured to him about the inappropriateness of doing a film about racism. 

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

No, I was referring to the Admiral that got saved and regretted that voyage. I heard that Darwin got saved too. I heard that he suffered greatly near his death, but I don't know the whole story. It was Huxley that bought the first 1500 copies of Darwin's book and promoted it. I think there were two Huxleys and I've never done any indepth studies on how it all came about.

I think there were a whole hierarchy of Academic/Sophist AntiGod individuals in inner circles that were waiting on that book. "Because they believed not the truth, I will send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie." The Lord works in mysterious ways, huh?

I have a paper titled, "Science and Theories of Origins, Phase Three>Beyond The Classroom, Comprehension and The Science of Context." It is well received by UD's Engineering Institute. If you do a Google search on The Science of Context and follow it to the end, you won't find that page. Someone told Google to remove it from the database.

But it doesn't matter, as long as we each and collectively continue to lift up the Lord's Name, seek His Face, pray without ceasing and plant seeds as the Lord leads us, God through Jesus will to seek and pursue the lost.

I will pray with you Steve, that the Lord open doors to ministry oportunities. You ought to, you're good at it.

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

     So much of the Bible is about enduring suffering, if the Bible is approached in a devotional way.  James 5 vs 11 says: " Behold, we count them happy which endure.  Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy".  It seems that so much of my experience has been about quietly enduring suffering, the Lord has not put me into the ministry yet, maybe the Lord does use  my input on Kingdom Insight to minister to people. 

     I'm assuming that it is the infamous Charles Darwin that you made reference to.  I have heard that he did have a conversion to Christianity before he died.  This could be true, there is only one sin that cannot be forgiven(blasphemy of the Holy Spirit).  I'm just curious of what his repentance from dead works would be, like everything that I have written is a bunch of nonsense.

     "We only see through a glass darkly", which is why we should be sober minded about the faith that God has given us(Romans 12 vs 3).  The apostle Paul had many supernatural experiences, one of them he was taken to Heaven, he said he could not communicate in human language what he experienced there, and even if he could it would not be lawful to do so.  Because of these revelations, there was given to Paul some type of affliction, the messanger of Satan to buffet him lest he should become exalted above measure.  He asked God 3 times to take it from him, but the Lord said, "my grace is sufficient for thee:  for my strength is made perfect in weakness".       

    

        

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

I agree. Our Lord is in charge and will work all things according to His Will. I think that's why it's good for Christians to remind and encourage each other as we each work to be trusted stewards in that place of our assignments.

I woke up early and was watching a Christian perspective of the Galapagos Islands and heard the story of the Admiral that took Darwin. He became a Christian 5 years after the voyage and wrote his own journal of what they were witnessing.

In the opening of the Book of Job, we are privy to a conversation that took place that Job and his friends are never privy to during the exchange. They are each put on the witness stand. It is one of the most awesome unveilings of The True Narrative and the Majesty of the Most High ever written. The only problem is they are using it as a club to whack each other instead of saying "Come and see."

Years ago, I used to watch The Twilight Zone. One episode, there was this couple exchanging barb for barb for barb the whole show and at the end, the camera backed up to a wide angle overview and there were bleachers on all sides of the room and there were figures sitting in the dark witnessing the exchange of barbs. "Here we see through a glass darkly..." "For we walk by faith, not by sight..."

I believe God is using and will use Kingdom Insight mightily and I am so grateful to be allowed to have a small part in it.

Thanks Steve,

Mark 

Steve Belttari said:

     Mark,

     Jesus said that in this world you will have tribulation, but fear not, I have overcome the world.  In God's time table it has only been 2 days since Jesus Christ died and was ressurrected.  He is now in Heaven where he makes intersession for us.  I think a common feeling that Christians have is that they are not in control of their lives.  You buy gas and you support terrorists, you transact business with federal reserve notes, you violate the Constitution and support international banksters.  Being seperate from this system is a lot easier said than done, but we can, but we have to change and get control of our lives.  It is the presence of the Church that keeps the Islamic anti-christ from being revealed or to come into power.   The early Church was the illegal persecuted Church that eventually became a state Church in AD 312.  The state Church of European Christendom was not totally corrupt, there was some good aspects to it.  There are some things about Christianity that are always going to be the same, but I don't think it is wise to put God in a box in how He uses the public institution of His Ekklesia(Church).        

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve.

I have been watching some You Tube videos Sheri linked on her page in 2009 on the dramatic rise of Islam and what that means for Israel and the world as this Age winds to a close. Watching what's going in Egypt, Yemen and Jordan, I am starting to go back to the Gospels and reread "When shall these things be?" It's like it was divided into 3 segments, The Kingdom Gospel until 70 AD, Times of the Gentiles> The Gospel given to Paul and the restart of the clock. It seems we are very close. It is very sobering.

Then I have to go find something that says, "Rejoice!" "Let not your hearts be troubled." I love to learn, but the last thing I want to be is a depressed Christian. We have everything to look forward to and nothing to be depressed about. It's like if what I have was contagious would it be worth catching? So it's a balancing act, being aware but not overwhelmed. It's finding a way to plant lots of seeds and pray over them, singing as we go.

I agree with you Steve, the natural man is in cahoots with the god of the world. It's like which man will win, the natural man or the spirit/God man? The man that I feed. So kids that are fed a diet of Godless theology will reflect that in the way they view things and the way they relate to each other. I read a quote on twitter, "The most dangerous road to Hell is the secular/casual one, soft underfoot with no signposts."

Thanks Steve, its good to share back and forth even though we both know Christ and know that He's coming soon, maybe someone will wonder in and this will plant a seed.

Thanks Steve,

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

    
        The world's system can never teach morals to a child.  Television is a very corrupting influence, but no one is forced to watch tv, at least not directly.  I think the world system's control of people's time and values determine a value for tv.   We are a new creation in Christ, but we do need to be transformed by the renewing of our minds.  1 Cor 1 vs 30 says that in Christ who of God is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption.  Wisdom does not happen instantly.   Our home is not in this world, we are ambassadors of a much better place.  Paul said in Phil 1 vs 21 "for me to live is Christ, and to die is gain".  I also don't have a death wish, but I am aware of the suffering that Christian's throughout the world are going through, we should remember them as it says in Heb 13 vs 3.  Maybe in a 21st century setting, remembering them might lead us to taking actions that we are not accustomed to.  During the Cold War I used to give donations to Jesus to the Communist World Inc.  Now we are in the War on Terrorism, interesting that we are at war with a tactic.  I don't look at the Christians in southern Sudan as being at war with terrorism, but trying to secede from the Muslim north.  We should support them in their efforts to secede.  I think a secessionist/sovereignty movement in the United States would facilitate secessionist movements worldwide.  I envision the Ekklesia/Christian Commonwealth establishing internationally recognized safe havens for persecuted Christians throughout the world.         
Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

We can see more and more the open hostility toward Christianity, huh? I think it is because it is the demonic realm's job to lead us away from Christ, it doesn't matter how.

When others were talking about morals outside of Christ, I almost jumped in, but didn't because so many months have passed by, but to say that, one has to remain willingly ignorant by choice.

A baby learns the word mine almost as soon as he/she learns the word mama. No one has to teach a child selfishness and jealosy, along with backbiting, ridicule, sarcasm and the like. Without fear of consequences taught in the home, the child grows up with little or no self discipline.

Just a glimpse at TV shows and we see self promoted in a verity of themes, "Look at what they did to me" or "Look at what I did to them", non stop gloat or lament. Living life in a very narrow vertical window, "It's all about me and I am better than them." That is our inherit nature at birth, inherited from the fall and the fallen nature of demons.

When we receive the New Birth, the Lord begins to change that nature from inside out. So there is a marked difference between the natural man without Christ and the new man seeking Christ. It is very pronounced as this age winds to a close.

For me, Steve, I feel drawn to the "Children that are in the land" and the children that have not yet come home, but the Lord leads us each different, so He provides plenty of different options for us all, huh?

Thanks Steve,

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

      There will be scoffers in the last days who will follow their own evil desires who will say, where is this coming that was promised long ago, don't things continue to go on like they always have?  Jesus said His coming will come like a thief in the night.  As we get closer to that day, those that are serving God will be looking for it like the Thessalonians, Paul said that this hope that they had was God's will, but some of them had to make some practical adjustments in the way they were living.  It also says in 1 John 3 vs 3 that every man that has this hope in Him purifies himself as He is pure.

     The Ekklesia is a nation or kingdom within the democratic-republic nation.  I think we have to look at what this might mean in a 21st century setting.  Jesus said he would rather you be hot or cold then lukewarm, God will make a distinction between those who serve God and those that don't.  Those that have a "form of godliness but deny it's power" will not be purified by the righteous living that a correct understanding of the rapture of the Church brings.

     I believe that there is a blessing for supporting Israel, but I think our support should be centered on the Messianic community there. Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

I didn't take it like you were encouraging laziness. I understood what you were saying. But thanks for the writeback.

I agree, reading the 'signs of the times' we are very close. I just have to redo my will. I don't have a death wish. :-)) Should the Lord take me before we all go together, I would rather see the money go to missions such as International Fellowship of Christians and Jews or World Vision. But I am going to go for a very cheap funeral instead of creamation, it was just a thought.

It's the same with seeking the Lord on the balancing act of preparing for retirement, if I should have to and send as much as possible on ahead. I have no desire for bigger barns.

Since I started reading Juanita's Kingdom Cryer, Kingdom thoughts have been coming at me from different sources. Kingdoms unlike democratic republics, take on the nature of the King. The outer kingdom has definitely taken on the nature of its king, the god of this world and the inner Kingdom is progressively taking on the nature of the King of Kings. The thought process, how we relate, how we reference things, etc. Even 20 years ago, there appeared to be some resemblance of middle ground, 'having a form of godliness': that middle ground is fast disappearing with the two kingdoms headed in opposite directions at breakneck speeds. We are living what the prophets wrote about.

Thanks for the writeback, Steve.

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

     Mark,

     When we communicate about matters like this it is important to be as accurate and complete as possible.  After my last transmission I could imagine some people taking some things out of context.  I can imagine someone thinking that I was encougaging laziness.  I think that we should carry our own burden and at times carry other people's burdens.  1 Cor 1 vs 31 says:  "That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."  This is taken from a scripture text in  Jeremiah chapter 9 that says:  "Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, let not the rich man boast in his riches, let not the strong man boast in his strength, but let him who boast, boast in the Lord who exercises lovingkindness and justice in the earth."  The wise man is the professional academic , the rich man is the businessman who is consumed with making money and the strong man is the macho tough guy construction worker type, sinful man will always  descend towards these classes.  I do manual labor, business and intellectual stuff.  

     I never did mention the Devil in the fall, unlike God, he is not omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.  He has some type of physical body that is in one place(Heaven) where he is the accuser of the brethren.  During the tribulation he will be cast down to the earth(Rev 12 vs 9-10).  He has an authority structure that is under his rule; fallen angels, demons(disembodied spirits) and the world(kosmos-social order).  Maybe it was a demon that entered the serpent and spoke through it, this I can't say for sure, but Satan was behind the deception of Eve and the fall of man.

     As far as cremation goes, certainly God has the power to resurrect someones ashes.  In fact, the unbeliever who is cremated cannot escape the ressurection at the Great White Throne Judgment.  It seems that the Bible gives a lot of a cases of proper burials, but getting buried is pretty expensive these days, so I can't say for sure.  I think we are pretty close to the rapture and maybe God would not want us thinking about burying or cremating our body when we are not going to die.  No man can say the exact day and hour when the rapture is going to occur, but there are things that are taught in the Bible that would indicate how close we are to that glorious day.  I Don't want to go into all that right now, maybe another discussion topic.                    

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply. Sure is interesting isn't it? Do you think it is a sin or an offense to God to be intentionally cremated? If I knew it wasn't an offense to the Lord, I would leave that in my will so most of what little I have could be put to good use.

Thanks Steve,

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

     I don't know enough about languages to say what language the first humans spoke, but they did speak one language until the Tower of Babel.  Instead of using their unity of language to glorify God, sinful man centralized in cities and built a skyscraper.  It seems to me that man was meant to communicate with animals, if this wasn't the case, surely Eve would have been terrified if a snake was to talk to her out of the blue.  Apparently snakes were designed by God to move about vertically, but when God cursed the serpent, he now slithers around on his belly.  After the fall, the woman was also cursed with pain in childbearing and having her husband as her personal dictator.  God also said to the first unrepentant sinner Adam, "cursed is the ground for YOUR sake", kind of interesting how men always think that God gets something out of their work, when the curse/affliction of work is designed to keep sinners busy.  Maybe we get this from Martin Luther who made a big ado about glorifying God in a secular occupation.  If he really believed this he would have stopped being a professional holy man and became a manual laborer instead, but he didn't, because translating Bibles and writing religious tracts is much more intellectually stimulating then moving dirt around.  As for the story of Joseph, I think the lesson that we can learn from it is that God will always use evil for good, as it says in Romans 8 vs 28, "all things work together for good for those  who love God and are called according to his purpose."  

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi. :-))

We had an ice storm tonight and I had to go in until 3:30am and now I am wide awake so maybe I can be the first response. I have to go back in at 8:00am.

I would say, "Be very careful. Scripture is of no private interpretation. Out of the mouth of two witnesses, so look to see if God has led any of His appointed/anointed ministers in that direction. I would say be careful about adding to or taking away from Scripture, if nothing else you could end up spending some quality time in His woodshed.

When God addresses something physically, it usually has spiritual significance. Interestingly, even though I know nothing about snake anatomy, I heard a python has a hip socket.

I am going to try to get a couple of hours sleep, but I thought maybe I could start this off.

Thanks for having patience with me. :-))

Mark

[Steve Belttari]

     The apostle Paul says in 1 Tim 1vs 12 that it was Jesus that enabled him, counted him faithful and put him into the ministry.  We really do need to be enabled by God to serve Him.  Nowhere is this more evident then in the area of forgiveness.  The natural man will have an unforgiving grudge against someone who has wronged him.  Only God can change your heart and He will test you to see if you are faithful.  Without going into to many details, someone I know caused me a lot of problems 10 years ago, I wasn't on speaking terms with him for most of the 1st decade of the 21st century.  He recently started a new career as a film producer, his first film is on racism in USA Today's most racist city in America.  He had his house torched by someone who was enabled by the police department of the most racist city in America.  He came to me for help, if God had not changed my heart I would have inwardly gloated over his disaster, and outwardly lectured to him about the inappropriateness of doing a film about racism. 

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

No, I was referring to the Admiral that got saved and regretted that voyage. I heard that Darwin got saved too. I heard that he suffered greatly near his death, but I don't know the whole story. It was Huxley that bought the first 1500 copies of Darwin's book and promoted it. I think there were two Huxleys and I've never done any indepth studies on how it all came about.

I think there were a whole hierarchy of Academic/Sophist AntiGod individuals in inner circles that were waiting on that book. "Because they believed not the truth, I will send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie." The Lord works in mysterious ways, huh?

I have a paper titled, "Science and Theories of Origins, Phase Three>Beyond The Classroom, Comprehension and The Science of Context." It is well received by UD's Engineering Institute. If you do a Google search on The Science of Context and follow it to the end, you won't find that page. Someone told Google to remove it from the database.

But it doesn't matter, as long as we each and collectively continue to lift up the Lord's Name, seek His Face, pray without ceasing and plant seeds as the Lord leads us, God through Jesus will to seek and pursue the lost.

I will pray with you Steve, that the Lord open doors to ministry oportunities. You ought to, you're good at it.

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

     So much of the Bible is about enduring suffering, if the Bible is approached in a devotional way.  James 5 vs 11 says: " Behold, we count them happy which endure.  Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy".  It seems that so much of my experience has been about quietly enduring suffering, the Lord has not put me into the ministry yet, maybe the Lord does use  my input on Kingdom Insight to minister to people. 

     I'm assuming that it is the infamous Charles Darwin that you made reference to.  I have heard that he did have a conversion to Christianity before he died.  This could be true, there is only one sin that cannot be forgiven(blasphemy of the Holy Spirit).  I'm just curious of what his repentance from dead works would be, like everything that I have written is a bunch of nonsense.

     "We only see through a glass darkly", which is why we should be sober minded about the faith that God has given us(Romans 12 vs 3).  The apostle Paul had many supernatural experiences, one of them he was taken to Heaven, he said he could not communicate in human language what he experienced there, and even if he could it would not be lawful to do so.  Because of these revelations, there was given to Paul some type of affliction, the messanger of Satan to buffet him lest he should become exalted above measure.  He asked God 3 times to take it from him, but the Lord said, "my grace is sufficient for thee:  for my strength is made perfect in weakness".       

    

        

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

I agree. Our Lord is in charge and will work all things according to His Will. I think that's why it's good for Christians to remind and encourage each other as we each work to be trusted stewards in that place of our assignments.

I woke up early and was watching a Christian perspective of the Galapagos Islands and heard the story of the Admiral that took Darwin. He became a Christian 5 years after the voyage and wrote his own journal of what they were witnessing.

In the opening of the Book of Job, we are privy to a conversation that took place that Job and his friends are never privy to during the exchange. They are each put on the witness stand. It is one of the most awesome unveilings of The True Narrative and the Majesty of the Most High ever written. The only problem is they are using it as a club to whack each other instead of saying "Come and see."

Years ago, I used to watch The Twilight Zone. One episode, there was this couple exchanging barb for barb for barb the whole show and at the end, the camera backed up to a wide angle overview and there were bleachers on all sides of the room and there were figures sitting in the dark witnessing the exchange of barbs. "Here we see through a glass darkly..." "For we walk by faith, not by sight..."

I believe God is using and will use Kingdom Insight mightily and I am so grateful to be allowed to have a small part in it.

Thanks Steve,

Mark 

Steve Belttari said:

     Mark,

     Jesus said that in this world you will have tribulation, but fear not, I have overcome the world.  In God's time table it has only been 2 days since Jesus Christ died and was ressurrected.  He is now in Heaven where he makes intersession for us.  I think a common feeling that Christians have is that they are not in control of their lives.  You buy gas and you support terrorists, you transact business with federal reserve notes, you violate the Constitution and support international banksters.  Being seperate from this system is a lot easier said than done, but we can, but we have to change and get control of our lives.  It is the presence of the Church that keeps the Islamic anti-christ from being revealed or to come into power.   The early Church was the illegal persecuted Church that eventually became a state Church in AD 312.  The state Church of European Christendom was not totally corrupt, there was some good aspects to it.  There are some things about Christianity that are always going to be the same, but I don't think it is wise to put God in a box in how He uses the public institution of His Ekklesia(Church).        

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve.

I have been watching some You Tube videos Sheri linked on her page in 2009 on the dramatic rise of Islam and what that means for Israel and the world as this Age winds to a close. Watching what's going in Egypt, Yemen and Jordan, I am starting to go back to the Gospels and reread "When shall these things be?" It's like it was divided into 3 segments, The Kingdom Gospel until 70 AD, Times of the Gentiles> The Gospel given to Paul and the restart of the clock. It seems we are very close. It is very sobering.

Then I have to go find something that says, "Rejoice!" "Let not your hearts be troubled." I love to learn, but the last thing I want to be is a depressed Christian. We have everything to look forward to and nothing to be depressed about. It's like if what I have was contagious would it be worth catching? So it's a balancing act, being aware but not overwhelmed. It's finding a way to plant lots of seeds and pray over them, singing as we go.

I agree with you Steve, the natural man is in cahoots with the god of the world. It's like which man will win, the natural man or the spirit/God man? The man that I feed. So kids that are fed a diet of Godless theology will reflect that in the way they view things and the way they relate to each other. I read a quote on twitter, "The most dangerous road to Hell is the secular/casual one, soft underfoot with no signposts."

Thanks Steve, its good to share back and forth even though we both know Christ and know that He's coming soon, maybe someone will wonder in and this will plant a seed.

Thanks Steve,

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

    
        The world's system can never teach morals to a child.  Television is a very corrupting influence, but no one is forced to watch tv, at least not directly.  I think the world system's control of people's time and values determine a value for tv.   We are a new creation in Christ, but we do need to be transformed by the renewing of our minds.  1 Cor 1 vs 30 says that in Christ who of God is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption.  Wisdom does not happen instantly.   Our home is not in this world, we are ambassadors of a much better place.  Paul said in Phil 1 vs 21 "for me to live is Christ, and to die is gain".  I also don't have a death wish, but I am aware of the suffering that Christian's throughout the world are going through, we should remember them as it says in Heb 13 vs 3.  Maybe in a 21st century setting, remembering them might lead us to taking actions that we are not accustomed to.  During the Cold War I used to give donations to Jesus to the Communist World Inc.  Now we are in the War on Terrorism, interesting that we are at war with a tactic.  I don't look at the Christians in southern Sudan as being at war with terrorism, but trying to secede from the Muslim north.  We should support them in their efforts to secede.  I think a secessionist/sovereignty movement in the United States would facilitate secessionist movements worldwide.  I envision the Ekklesia/Christian Commonwealth establishing internationally recognized safe havens for persecuted Christians throughout the world.         
Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

We can see more and more the open hostility toward Christianity, huh? I think it is because it is the demonic realm's job to lead us away from Christ, it doesn't matter how.

When others were talking about morals outside of Christ, I almost jumped in, but didn't because so many months have passed by, but to say that, one has to remain willingly ignorant by choice.

A baby learns the word mine almost as soon as he/she learns the word mama. No one has to teach a child selfishness and jealosy, along with backbiting, ridicule, sarcasm and the like. Without fear of consequences taught in the home, the child grows up with little or no self discipline.

Just a glimpse at TV shows and we see self promoted in a verity of themes, "Look at what they did to me" or "Look at what I did to them", non stop gloat or lament. Living life in a very narrow vertical window, "It's all about me and I am better than them." That is our inherit nature at birth, inherited from the fall and the fallen nature of demons.

When we receive the New Birth, the Lord begins to change that nature from inside out. So there is a marked difference between the natural man without Christ and the new man seeking Christ. It is very pronounced as this age winds to a close.

For me, Steve, I feel drawn to the "Children that are in the land" and the children that have not yet come home, but the Lord leads us each different, so He provides plenty of different options for us all, huh?

Thanks Steve,

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

      There will be scoffers in the last days who will follow their own evil desires who will say, where is this coming that was promised long ago, don't things continue to go on like they always have?  Jesus said His coming will come like a thief in the night.  As we get closer to that day, those that are serving God will be looking for it like the Thessalonians, Paul said that this hope that they had was God's will, but some of them had to make some practical adjustments in the way they were living.  It also says in 1 John 3 vs 3 that every man that has this hope in Him purifies himself as He is pure.

     The Ekklesia is a nation or kingdom within the democratic-republic nation.  I think we have to look at what this might mean in a 21st century setting.  Jesus said he would rather you be hot or cold then lukewarm, God will make a distinction between those who serve God and those that don't.  Those that have a "form of godliness but deny it's power" will not be purified by the righteous living that a correct understanding of the rapture of the Church brings.

     I believe that there is a blessing for supporting Israel, but I think our support should be centered on the Messianic community there. Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

I didn't take it like you were encouraging laziness. I understood what you were saying. But thanks for the writeback.

I agree, reading the 'signs of the times' we are very close. I just have to redo my will. I don't have a death wish. :-)) Should the Lord take me before we all go together, I would rather see the money go to missions such as International Fellowship of Christians and Jews or World Vision. But I am going to go for a very cheap funeral instead of creamation, it was just a thought.

It's the same with seeking the Lord on the balancing act of preparing for retirement, if I should have to and send as much as possible on ahead. I have no desire for bigger barns.

Since I started reading Juanita's Kingdom Cryer, Kingdom thoughts have been coming at me from different sources. Kingdoms unlike democratic republics, take on the nature of the King. The outer kingdom has definitely taken on the nature of its king, the god of this world and the inner Kingdom is progressively taking on the nature of the King of Kings. The thought process, how we relate, how we reference things, etc. Even 20 years ago, there appeared to be some resemblance of middle ground, 'having a form of godliness': that middle ground is fast disappearing with the two kingdoms headed in opposite directions at breakneck speeds. We are living what the prophets wrote about.

Thanks for the writeback, Steve.

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

     Mark,

     When we communicate about matters like this it is important to be as accurate and complete as possible.  After my last transmission I could imagine some people taking some things out of context.  I can imagine someone thinking that I was encougaging laziness.  I think that we should carry our own burden and at times carry other people's burdens.  1 Cor 1 vs 31 says:  "That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."  This is taken from a scripture text in  Jeremiah chapter 9 that says:  "Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, let not the rich man boast in his riches, let not the strong man boast in his strength, but let him who boast, boast in the Lord who exercises lovingkindness and justice in the earth."  The wise man is the professional academic , the rich man is the businessman who is consumed with making money and the strong man is the macho tough guy construction worker type, sinful man will always  descend towards these classes.  I do manual labor, business and intellectual stuff.  

     I never did mention the Devil in the fall, unlike God, he is not omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.  He has some type of physical body that is in one place(Heaven) where he is the accuser of the brethren.  During the tribulation he will be cast down to the earth(Rev 12 vs 9-10).  He has an authority structure that is under his rule; fallen angels, demons(disembodied spirits) and the world(kosmos-social order).  Maybe it was a demon that entered the serpent and spoke through it, this I can't say for sure, but Satan was behind the deception of Eve and the fall of man.

     As far as cremation goes, certainly God has the power to resurrect someones ashes.  In fact, the unbeliever who is cremated cannot escape the ressurection at the Great White Throne Judgment.  It seems that the Bible gives a lot of a cases of proper burials, but getting buried is pretty expensive these days, so I can't say for sure.  I think we are pretty close to the rapture and maybe God would not want us thinking about burying or cremating our body when we are not going to die.  No man can say the exact day and hour when the rapture is going to occur, but there are things that are taught in the Bible that would indicate how close we are to that glorious day.  I Don't want to go into all that right now, maybe another discussion topic.                    

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply. Sure is interesting isn't it? Do you think it is a sin or an offense to God to be intentionally cremated? If I knew it wasn't an offense to the Lord, I would leave that in my will so most of what little I have could be put to good use.

Thanks Steve,

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

     I don't know enough about languages to say what language the first humans spoke, but they did speak one language until the Tower of Babel.  Instead of using their unity of language to glorify God, sinful man centralized in cities and built a skyscraper.  It seems to me that man was meant to communicate with animals, if this wasn't the case, surely Eve would have been terrified if a snake was to talk to her out of the blue.  Apparently snakes were designed by God to move about vertically, but when God cursed the serpent, he now slithers around on his belly.  After the fall, the woman was also cursed with pain in childbearing and having her husband as her personal dictator.  God also said to the first unrepentant sinner Adam, "cursed is the ground for YOUR sake", kind of interesting how men always think that God gets something out of their work, when the curse/affliction of work is designed to keep sinners busy.  Maybe we get this from Martin Luther who made a big ado about glorifying God in a secular occupation.  If he really believed this he would have stopped being a professional holy man and became a manual laborer instead, but he didn't, because translating Bibles and writing religious tracts is much more intellectually stimulating then moving dirt around.  As for the story of Joseph, I think the lesson that we can learn from it is that God will always use evil for good, as it says in Romans 8 vs 28, "all things work together for good for those  who love God and are called according to his purpose."  

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi. :-))

We had an ice storm tonight and I had to go in until 3:30am and now I am wide awake so maybe I can be the first response. I have to go back in at 8:00am.

I would say, "Be very careful. Scripture is of no private interpretation. Out of the mouth of two witnesses, so look to see if God has led any of His appointed/anointed ministers in that direction. I would say be careful about adding to or taking away from Scripture, if nothing else you could end up spending some quality time in His woodshed.

When God addresses something physically, it usually has spiritual significance. Interestingly, even though I know nothing about snake anatomy, I heard a python has a hip socket.

I am going to try to get a couple of hours sleep, but I thought maybe I could start this off.

Thanks for having patience with me. :-))

Mark

[Mark Edward Kroger]

Hi Steve,

No, I was referring to the Admiral that got saved and regretted that voyage. I heard that Darwin got saved too. I heard that he suffered greatly near his death, but I don't know the whole story. It was Huxley that bought the first 1500 copies of Darwin's book and promoted it. I think there were two Huxleys and I've never done any indepth studies on how it all came about.

I think there were a whole hierarchy of Academic/Sophist AntiGod individuals in inner circles that were waiting on that book. "Because they believed not the truth, I will send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie." The Lord works in mysterious ways, huh?

I have a paper titled, "Science and Theories of Origins, Phase Three>Beyond The Classroom, Comprehension and The Science of Context." It is well received by UD's Engineering Institute. If you do a Google search on The Science of Context and follow it to the end, you won't find that page. Someone told Google to remove it from the database.

But it doesn't matter, as long as we each and collectively continue to lift up the Lord's Name, seek His Face, pray without ceasing and plant seeds as the Lord leads us, God through Jesus will to seek and pursue the lost.

I will pray with you Steve, that the Lord open doors to ministry oportunities. You ought to, you're good at it.

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

     So much of the Bible is about enduring suffering, if the Bible is approached in a devotional way.  James 5 vs 11 says: " Behold, we count them happy which endure.  Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy".  It seems that so much of my experience has been about quietly enduring suffering, the Lord has not put me into the ministry yet, maybe the Lord does use  my input on Kingdom Insight to minister to people. 

     I'm assuming that it is the infamous Charles Darwin that you made reference to.  I have heard that he did have a conversion to Christianity before he died.  This could be true, there is only one sin that cannot be forgiven(blasphemy of the Holy Spirit).  I'm just curious of what his repentance from dead works would be, like everything that I have written is a bunch of nonsense.

     "We only see through a glass darkly", which is why we should be sober minded about the faith that God has given us(Romans 12 vs 3).  The apostle Paul had many supernatural experiences, one of them he was taken to Heaven, he said he could not communicate in human language what he experienced there, and even if he could it would not be lawful to do so.  Because of these revelations, there was given to Paul some type of affliction, the messanger of Satan to buffet him lest he should become exalted above measure.  He asked God 3 times to take it from him, but the Lord said, "my grace is sufficient for thee:  for my strength is made perfect in weakness".       

    

        

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

I agree. Our Lord is in charge and will work all things according to His Will. I think that's why it's good for Christians to remind and encourage each other as we each work to be trusted stewards in that place of our assignments.

I woke up early and was watching a Christian perspective of the Galapagos Islands and heard the story of the Admiral that took Darwin. He became a Christian 5 years after the voyage and wrote his own journal of what they were witnessing.

In the opening of the Book of Job, we are privy to a conversation that took place that Job and his friends are never privy to during the exchange. They are each put on the witness stand. It is one of the most awesome unveilings of The True Narrative and the Majesty of the Most High ever written. The only problem is they are using it as a club to whack each other instead of saying "Come and see."

Years ago, I used to watch The Twilight Zone. One episode, there was this couple exchanging barb for barb for barb the whole show and at the end, the camera backed up to a wide angle overview and there were bleachers on all sides of the room and there were figures sitting in the dark witnessing the exchange of barbs. "Here we see through a glass darkly..." "For we walk by faith, not by sight..."

I believe God is using and will use Kingdom Insight mightily and I am so grateful to be allowed to have a small part in it.

Thanks Steve,

Mark 

Steve Belttari said:

     Mark,

     Jesus said that in this world you will have tribulation, but fear not, I have overcome the world.  In God's time table it has only been 2 days since Jesus Christ died and was ressurrected.  He is now in Heaven where he makes intersession for us.  I think a common feeling that Christians have is that they are not in control of their lives.  You buy gas and you support terrorists, you transact business with federal reserve notes, you violate the Constitution and support international banksters.  Being seperate from this system is a lot easier said than done, but we can, but we have to change and get control of our lives.  It is the presence of the Church that keeps the Islamic anti-christ from being revealed or to come into power.   The early Church was the illegal persecuted Church that eventually became a state Church in AD 312.  The state Church of European Christendom was not totally corrupt, there was some good aspects to it.  There are some things about Christianity that are always going to be the same, but I don't think it is wise to put God in a box in how He uses the public institution of His Ekklesia(Church).        

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve.

I have been watching some You Tube videos Sheri linked on her page in 2009 on the dramatic rise of Islam and what that means for Israel and the world as this Age winds to a close. Watching what's going in Egypt, Yemen and Jordan, I am starting to go back to the Gospels and reread "When shall these things be?" It's like it was divided into 3 segments, The Kingdom Gospel until 70 AD, Times of the Gentiles> The Gospel given to Paul and the restart of the clock. It seems we are very close. It is very sobering.

Then I have to go find something that says, "Rejoice!" "Let not your hearts be troubled." I love to learn, but the last thing I want to be is a depressed Christian. We have everything to look forward to and nothing to be depressed about. It's like if what I have was contagious would it be worth catching? So it's a balancing act, being aware but not overwhelmed. It's finding a way to plant lots of seeds and pray over them, singing as we go.

I agree with you Steve, the natural man is in cahoots with the god of the world. It's like which man will win, the natural man or the spirit/God man? The man that I feed. So kids that are fed a diet of Godless theology will reflect that in the way they view things and the way they relate to each other. I read a quote on twitter, "The most dangerous road to Hell is the secular/casual one, soft underfoot with no signposts."

Thanks Steve, its good to share back and forth even though we both know Christ and know that He's coming soon, maybe someone will wonder in and this will plant a seed.

Thanks Steve,

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

    
        The world's system can never teach morals to a child.  Television is a very corrupting influence, but no one is forced to watch tv, at least not directly.  I think the world system's control of people's time and values determine a value for tv.   We are a new creation in Christ, but we do need to be transformed by the renewing of our minds.  1 Cor 1 vs 30 says that in Christ who of God is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption.  Wisdom does not happen instantly.   Our home is not in this world, we are ambassadors of a much better place.  Paul said in Phil 1 vs 21 "for me to live is Christ, and to die is gain".  I also don't have a death wish, but I am aware of the suffering that Christian's throughout the world are going through, we should remember them as it says in Heb 13 vs 3.  Maybe in a 21st century setting, remembering them might lead us to taking actions that we are not accustomed to.  During the Cold War I used to give donations to Jesus to the Communist World Inc.  Now we are in the War on Terrorism, interesting that we are at war with a tactic.  I don't look at the Christians in southern Sudan as being at war with terrorism, but trying to secede from the Muslim north.  We should support them in their efforts to secede.  I think a secessionist/sovereignty movement in the United States would facilitate secessionist movements worldwide.  I envision the Ekklesia/Christian Commonwealth establishing internationally recognized safe havens for persecuted Christians throughout the world.         
Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

We can see more and more the open hostility toward Christianity, huh? I think it is because it is the demonic realm's job to lead us away from Christ, it doesn't matter how.

When others were talking about morals outside of Christ, I almost jumped in, but didn't because so many months have passed by, but to say that, one has to remain willingly ignorant by choice.

A baby learns the word mine almost as soon as he/she learns the word mama. No one has to teach a child selfishness and jealosy, along with backbiting, ridicule, sarcasm and the like. Without fear of consequences taught in the home, the child grows up with little or no self discipline.

Just a glimpse at TV shows and we see self promoted in a verity of themes, "Look at what they did to me" or "Look at what I did to them", non stop gloat or lament. Living life in a very narrow vertical window, "It's all about me and I am better than them." That is our inherit nature at birth, inherited from the fall and the fallen nature of demons.

When we receive the New Birth, the Lord begins to change that nature from inside out. So there is a marked difference between the natural man without Christ and the new man seeking Christ. It is very pronounced as this age winds to a close.

For me, Steve, I feel drawn to the "Children that are in the land" and the children that have not yet come home, but the Lord leads us each different, so He provides plenty of different options for us all, huh?

Thanks Steve,

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

      There will be scoffers in the last days who will follow their own evil desires who will say, where is this coming that was promised long ago, don't things continue to go on like they always have?  Jesus said His coming will come like a thief in the night.  As we get closer to that day, those that are serving God will be looking for it like the Thessalonians, Paul said that this hope that they had was God's will, but some of them had to make some practical adjustments in the way they were living.  It also says in 1 John 3 vs 3 that every man that has this hope in Him purifies himself as He is pure.

     The Ekklesia is a nation or kingdom within the democratic-republic nation.  I think we have to look at what this might mean in a 21st century setting.  Jesus said he would rather you be hot or cold then lukewarm, God will make a distinction between those who serve God and those that don't.  Those that have a "form of godliness but deny it's power" will not be purified by the righteous living that a correct understanding of the rapture of the Church brings.

     I believe that there is a blessing for supporting Israel, but I think our support should be centered on the Messianic community there. Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

I didn't take it like you were encouraging laziness. I understood what you were saying. But thanks for the writeback.

I agree, reading the 'signs of the times' we are very close. I just have to redo my will. I don't have a death wish. :-)) Should the Lord take me before we all go together, I would rather see the money go to missions such as International Fellowship of Christians and Jews or World Vision. But I am going to go for a very cheap funeral instead of creamation, it was just a thought.

It's the same with seeking the Lord on the balancing act of preparing for retirement, if I should have to and send as much as possible on ahead. I have no desire for bigger barns.

Since I started reading Juanita's Kingdom Cryer, Kingdom thoughts have been coming at me from different sources. Kingdoms unlike democratic republics, take on the nature of the King. The outer kingdom has definitely taken on the nature of its king, the god of this world and the inner Kingdom is progressively taking on the nature of the King of Kings. The thought process, how we relate, how we reference things, etc. Even 20 years ago, there appeared to be some resemblance of middle ground, 'having a form of godliness': that middle ground is fast disappearing with the two kingdoms headed in opposite directions at breakneck speeds. We are living what the prophets wrote about.

Thanks for the writeback, Steve.

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

     Mark,

     When we communicate about matters like this it is important to be as accurate and complete as possible.  After my last transmission I could imagine some people taking some things out of context.  I can imagine someone thinking that I was encougaging laziness.  I think that we should carry our own burden and at times carry other people's burdens.  1 Cor 1 vs 31 says:  "That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."  This is taken from a scripture text in  Jeremiah chapter 9 that says:  "Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, let not the rich man boast in his riches, let not the strong man boast in his strength, but let him who boast, boast in the Lord who exercises lovingkindness and justice in the earth."  The wise man is the professional academic , the rich man is the businessman who is consumed with making money and the strong man is the macho tough guy construction worker type, sinful man will always  descend towards these classes.  I do manual labor, business and intellectual stuff.  

     I never did mention the Devil in the fall, unlike God, he is not omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.  He has some type of physical body that is in one place(Heaven) where he is the accuser of the brethren.  During the tribulation he will be cast down to the earth(Rev 12 vs 9-10).  He has an authority structure that is under his rule; fallen angels, demons(disembodied spirits) and the world(kosmos-social order).  Maybe it was a demon that entered the serpent and spoke through it, this I can't say for sure, but Satan was behind the deception of Eve and the fall of man.

     As far as cremation goes, certainly God has the power to resurrect someones ashes.  In fact, the unbeliever who is cremated cannot escape the ressurection at the Great White Throne Judgment.  It seems that the Bible gives a lot of a cases of proper burials, but getting buried is pretty expensive these days, so I can't say for sure.  I think we are pretty close to the rapture and maybe God would not want us thinking about burying or cremating our body when we are not going to die.  No man can say the exact day and hour when the rapture is going to occur, but there are things that are taught in the Bible that would indicate how close we are to that glorious day.  I Don't want to go into all that right now, maybe another discussion topic.                    

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply. Sure is interesting isn't it? Do you think it is a sin or an offense to God to be intentionally cremated? If I knew it wasn't an offense to the Lord, I would leave that in my will so most of what little I have could be put to good use.

Thanks Steve,

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

     I don't know enough about languages to say what language the first humans spoke, but they did speak one language until the Tower of Babel.  Instead of using their unity of language to glorify God, sinful man centralized in cities and built a skyscraper.  It seems to me that man was meant to communicate with animals, if this wasn't the case, surely Eve would have been terrified if a snake was to talk to her out of the blue.  Apparently snakes were designed by God to move about vertically, but when God cursed the serpent, he now slithers around on his belly.  After the fall, the woman was also cursed with pain in childbearing and having her husband as her personal dictator.  God also said to the first unrepentant sinner Adam, "cursed is the ground for YOUR sake", kind of interesting how men always think that God gets something out of their work, when the curse/affliction of work is designed to keep sinners busy.  Maybe we get this from Martin Luther who made a big ado about glorifying God in a secular occupation.  If he really believed this he would have stopped being a professional holy man and became a manual laborer instead, but he didn't, because translating Bibles and writing religious tracts is much more intellectually stimulating then moving dirt around.  As for the story of Joseph, I think the lesson that we can learn from it is that God will always use evil for good, as it says in Romans 8 vs 28, "all things work together for good for those  who love God and are called according to his purpose."  

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi. :-))

We had an ice storm tonight and I had to go in until 3:30am and now I am wide awake so maybe I can be the first response. I have to go back in at 8:00am.

I would say, "Be very careful. Scripture is of no private interpretation. Out of the mouth of two witnesses, so look to see if God has led any of His appointed/anointed ministers in that direction. I would say be careful about adding to or taking away from Scripture, if nothing else you could end up spending some quality time in His woodshed.

When God addresses something physically, it usually has spiritual significance. Interestingly, even though I know nothing about snake anatomy, I heard a python has a hip socket.

I am going to try to get a couple of hours sleep, but I thought maybe I could start this off.

Thanks for having patience with me. :-))

Mark

[Steve Belttari]

     So much of the Bible is about enduring suffering, if the Bible is approached in a devotional way.  James 5 vs 11 says: " Behold, we count them happy which endure.  Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy".  It seems that so much of my experience has been about quietly enduring suffering, the Lord has not put me into the ministry yet, maybe the Lord does use  my input on Kingdom Insight to minister to people. 

     I'm assuming that it is the infamous Charles Darwin that you made reference to.  I have heard that he did have a conversion to Christianity before he died.  This could be true, there is only one sin that cannot be forgiven(blasphemy of the Holy Spirit).  I'm just curious of what his repentance from dead works would be, like everything that I have written is a bunch of nonsense.

     "We only see through a glass darkly", which is why we should be sober minded about the faith that God has given us(Romans 12 vs 3).  The apostle Paul had many supernatural experiences, one of them he was taken to Heaven, he said he could not communicate in human language what he experienced there, and even if he could it would not be lawful to do so.  Because of these revelations, there was given to Paul some type of affliction, the messanger of Satan to buffet him lest he should become exalted above measure.  He asked God 3 times to take it from him, but the Lord said, "my grace is sufficient for thee:  for my strength is made perfect in weakness".       

    

        

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

I agree. Our Lord is in charge and will work all things according to His Will. I think that's why it's good for Christians to remind and encourage each other as we each work to be trusted stewards in that place of our assignments.

I woke up early and was watching a Christian perspective of the Galapagos Islands and heard the story of the Admiral that took Darwin. He became a Christian 5 years after the voyage and wrote his own journal of what they were witnessing.

In the opening of the Book of Job, we are privy to a conversation that took place that Job and his friends are never privy to during the exchange. They are each put on the witness stand. It is one of the most awesome unveilings of The True Narrative and the Majesty of the Most High ever written. The only problem is they are using it as a club to whack each other instead of saying "Come and see."

Years ago, I used to watch The Twilight Zone. One episode, there was this couple exchanging barb for barb for barb the whole show and at the end, the camera backed up to a wide angle overview and there were bleachers on all sides of the room and there were figures sitting in the dark witnessing the exchange of barbs. "Here we see through a glass darkly..." "For we walk by faith, not by sight..."

I believe God is using and will use Kingdom Insight mightily and I am so grateful to be allowed to have a small part in it.

Thanks Steve,

Mark 

Steve Belttari said:

     Mark,

     Jesus said that in this world you will have tribulation, but fear not, I have overcome the world.  In God's time table it has only been 2 days since Jesus Christ died and was ressurrected.  He is now in Heaven where he makes intersession for us.  I think a common feeling that Christians have is that they are not in control of their lives.  You buy gas and you support terrorists, you transact business with federal reserve notes, you violate the Constitution and support international banksters.  Being seperate from this system is a lot easier said than done, but we can, but we have to change and get control of our lives.  It is the presence of the Church that keeps the Islamic anti-christ from being revealed or to come into power.   The early Church was the illegal persecuted Church that eventually became a state Church in AD 312.  The state Church of European Christendom was not totally corrupt, there was some good aspects to it.  There are some things about Christianity that are always going to be the same, but I don't think it is wise to put God in a box in how He uses the public institution of His Ekklesia(Church).        

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve.

I have been watching some You Tube videos Sheri linked on her page in 2009 on the dramatic rise of Islam and what that means for Israel and the world as this Age winds to a close. Watching what's going in Egypt, Yemen and Jordan, I am starting to go back to the Gospels and reread "When shall these things be?" It's like it was divided into 3 segments, The Kingdom Gospel until 70 AD, Times of the Gentiles> The Gospel given to Paul and the restart of the clock. It seems we are very close. It is very sobering.

Then I have to go find something that says, "Rejoice!" "Let not your hearts be troubled." I love to learn, but the last thing I want to be is a depressed Christian. We have everything to look forward to and nothing to be depressed about. It's like if what I have was contagious would it be worth catching? So it's a balancing act, being aware but not overwhelmed. It's finding a way to plant lots of seeds and pray over them, singing as we go.

I agree with you Steve, the natural man is in cahoots with the god of the world. It's like which man will win, the natural man or the spirit/God man? The man that I feed. So kids that are fed a diet of Godless theology will reflect that in the way they view things and the way they relate to each other. I read a quote on twitter, "The most dangerous road to Hell is the secular/casual one, soft underfoot with no signposts."

Thanks Steve, its good to share back and forth even though we both know Christ and know that He's coming soon, maybe someone will wonder in and this will plant a seed.

Thanks Steve,

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

    
        The world's system can never teach morals to a child.  Television is a very corrupting influence, but no one is forced to watch tv, at least not directly.  I think the world system's control of people's time and values determine a value for tv.   We are a new creation in Christ, but we do need to be transformed by the renewing of our minds.  1 Cor 1 vs 30 says that in Christ who of God is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption.  Wisdom does not happen instantly.   Our home is not in this world, we are ambassadors of a much better place.  Paul said in Phil 1 vs 21 "for me to live is Christ, and to die is gain".  I also don't have a death wish, but I am aware of the suffering that Christian's throughout the world are going through, we should remember them as it says in Heb 13 vs 3.  Maybe in a 21st century setting, remembering them might lead us to taking actions that we are not accustomed to.  During the Cold War I used to give donations to Jesus to the Communist World Inc.  Now we are in the War on Terrorism, interesting that we are at war with a tactic.  I don't look at the Christians in southern Sudan as being at war with terrorism, but trying to secede from the Muslim north.  We should support them in their efforts to secede.  I think a secessionist/sovereignty movement in the United States would facilitate secessionist movements worldwide.  I envision the Ekklesia/Christian Commonwealth establishing internationally recognized safe havens for persecuted Christians throughout the world.         
Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

We can see more and more the open hostility toward Christianity, huh? I think it is because it is the demonic realm's job to lead us away from Christ, it doesn't matter how.

When others were talking about morals outside of Christ, I almost jumped in, but didn't because so many months have passed by, but to say that, one has to remain willingly ignorant by choice.

A baby learns the word mine almost as soon as he/she learns the word mama. No one has to teach a child selfishness and jealosy, along with backbiting, ridicule, sarcasm and the like. Without fear of consequences taught in the home, the child grows up with little or no self discipline.

Just a glimpse at TV shows and we see self promoted in a verity of themes, "Look at what they did to me" or "Look at what I did to them", non stop gloat or lament. Living life in a very narrow vertical window, "It's all about me and I am better than them." That is our inherit nature at birth, inherited from the fall and the fallen nature of demons.

When we receive the New Birth, the Lord begins to change that nature from inside out. So there is a marked difference between the natural man without Christ and the new man seeking Christ. It is very pronounced as this age winds to a close.

For me, Steve, I feel drawn to the "Children that are in the land" and the children that have not yet come home, but the Lord leads us each different, so He provides plenty of different options for us all, huh?

Thanks Steve,

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

      There will be scoffers in the last days who will follow their own evil desires who will say, where is this coming that was promised long ago, don't things continue to go on like they always have?  Jesus said His coming will come like a thief in the night.  As we get closer to that day, those that are serving God will be looking for it like the Thessalonians, Paul said that this hope that they had was God's will, but some of them had to make some practical adjustments in the way they were living.  It also says in 1 John 3 vs 3 that every man that has this hope in Him purifies himself as He is pure.

     The Ekklesia is a nation or kingdom within the democratic-republic nation.  I think we have to look at what this might mean in a 21st century setting.  Jesus said he would rather you be hot or cold then lukewarm, God will make a distinction between those who serve God and those that don't.  Those that have a "form of godliness but deny it's power" will not be purified by the righteous living that a correct understanding of the rapture of the Church brings.

     I believe that there is a blessing for supporting Israel, but I think our support should be centered on the Messianic community there. Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

I didn't take it like you were encouraging laziness. I understood what you were saying. But thanks for the writeback.

I agree, reading the 'signs of the times' we are very close. I just have to redo my will. I don't have a death wish. :-)) Should the Lord take me before we all go together, I would rather see the money go to missions such as International Fellowship of Christians and Jews or World Vision. But I am going to go for a very cheap funeral instead of creamation, it was just a thought.

It's the same with seeking the Lord on the balancing act of preparing for retirement, if I should have to and send as much as possible on ahead. I have no desire for bigger barns.

Since I started reading Juanita's Kingdom Cryer, Kingdom thoughts have been coming at me from different sources. Kingdoms unlike democratic republics, take on the nature of the King. The outer kingdom has definitely taken on the nature of its king, the god of this world and the inner Kingdom is progressively taking on the nature of the King of Kings. The thought process, how we relate, how we reference things, etc. Even 20 years ago, there appeared to be some resemblance of middle ground, 'having a form of godliness': that middle ground is fast disappearing with the two kingdoms headed in opposite directions at breakneck speeds. We are living what the prophets wrote about.

Thanks for the writeback, Steve.

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

     Mark,

     When we communicate about matters like this it is important to be as accurate and complete as possible.  After my last transmission I could imagine some people taking some things out of context.  I can imagine someone thinking that I was encougaging laziness.  I think that we should carry our own burden and at times carry other people's burdens.  1 Cor 1 vs 31 says:  "That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."  This is taken from a scripture text in  Jeremiah chapter 9 that says:  "Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, let not the rich man boast in his riches, let not the strong man boast in his strength, but let him who boast, boast in the Lord who exercises lovingkindness and justice in the earth."  The wise man is the professional academic , the rich man is the businessman who is consumed with making money and the strong man is the macho tough guy construction worker type, sinful man will always  descend towards these classes.  I do manual labor, business and intellectual stuff.  

     I never did mention the Devil in the fall, unlike God, he is not omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.  He has some type of physical body that is in one place(Heaven) where he is the accuser of the brethren.  During the tribulation he will be cast down to the earth(Rev 12 vs 9-10).  He has an authority structure that is under his rule; fallen angels, demons(disembodied spirits) and the world(kosmos-social order).  Maybe it was a demon that entered the serpent and spoke through it, this I can't say for sure, but Satan was behind the deception of Eve and the fall of man.

     As far as cremation goes, certainly God has the power to resurrect someones ashes.  In fact, the unbeliever who is cremated cannot escape the ressurection at the Great White Throne Judgment.  It seems that the Bible gives a lot of a cases of proper burials, but getting buried is pretty expensive these days, so I can't say for sure.  I think we are pretty close to the rapture and maybe God would not want us thinking about burying or cremating our body when we are not going to die.  No man can say the exact day and hour when the rapture is going to occur, but there are things that are taught in the Bible that would indicate how close we are to that glorious day.  I Don't want to go into all that right now, maybe another discussion topic.                    

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply. Sure is interesting isn't it? Do you think it is a sin or an offense to God to be intentionally cremated? If I knew it wasn't an offense to the Lord, I would leave that in my will so most of what little I have could be put to good use.

Thanks Steve,

Mark

Steve Belttari said:

     I don't know enough about languages to say what language the first humans spoke, but they did speak one language until the Tower of Babel.  Instead of using their unity of language to glorify God, sinful man centralized in cities and built a skyscraper.  It seems to me that man was meant to communicate with animals, if this wasn't the case, surely Eve would have been terrified if a snake was to talk to her out of the blue.  Apparently snakes were designed by God to move about vertically, but when God cursed the serpent, he now slithers around on his belly.  After the fall, the woman was also cursed with pain in childbearing and having her husband as her personal dictator.  God also said to the first unrepentant sinner Adam, "cursed is the ground for YOUR sake", kind of interesting how men always think that God gets something out of their work, when the curse/affliction of work is designed to keep sinners busy.  Maybe we get this from Martin Luther who made a big ado about glorifying God in a secular occupation.  If he really believed this he would have stopped being a professional holy man and became a manual laborer instead, but he didn't, because translating Bibles and writing religious tracts is much more intellectually stimulating then moving dirt around.  As for the story of Joseph, I think the lesson that we can learn from it is that God will always use evil for good, as it says in Romans 8 vs 28, "all things work together for good for those  who love God and are called according to his purpose."  

Mark Edward Kroger said:

Hi. :-))

We had an ice storm tonight and I had to go in until 3:30am and now I am wide awake so maybe I can be the first response. I have to go back in at 8:00am.

I would say, "Be very careful. Scripture is of no private interpretation. Out of the mouth of two witnesses, so look to see if God has led any of His appointed/anointed ministers in that direction. I would say be careful about adding to or taking away from Scripture, if nothing else you could end up spending some quality time in His woodshed.

When God addresses something physically, it usually has spiritual significance. Interestingly, even though I know nothing about snake anatomy, I heard a python has a hip socket.

I am going to try to get a couple of hours sleep, but I thought maybe I could start this off.

Thanks for having patience with me. :-))

Mark