Just a correction. The Bible says that the antiChrist's followers will bare the number 666 not Christians.
ZDENNY said:
The passage of the health bill was predicted by myself last year! The Bible predicts a coming one world government. The people will looked to the government for their security. When they do this, the Bible predicts that the anti-Christ will come to power who will be promising world security. The first step is to give the government unlimited power over our lives which the health care reform bill does as a first step.
In order to prepare for this, we are going to see the world become more and more controlled by a small elite. I don't think most people realize that America is the last industrialized nation to accept universal health care. The power that was given to the government over the weekend is extreme. The government has now set up a system that will lead to a single payer system where everyones medical histories will be tracked by the federal government. Government figures will eventually have the power over life and death decisions.
The government also now has the right to track you at all times. I think this is significant because they now have the right to force you to have a health care plan and make sure you are on a plan. This alone is a very major development because the anti-Christ at some point in the future will force all Christians to bear an indentification label on their bodies as signified by the number 666. The government having the right to force us to do something in order to qualify as a citizen is very significant from a Biblical perspective.
The states in the past could check on you once a year with the drivers license. The federal government could check up on you once a year by requiring you to file taxes. Health care reform will now require the government to know where you live at all times in order to make sure you have health care!!
For those who know Bible prophecy, this is pretty exciting stuff. For all those who love the Lord, we know that the coming of our Lord is drawing nearer by the day! For those who don't know the reality of God's love, this could be scary; however, for those who know the love of the Lord, this is expected, predicted in Scripture and signifies the end of mankind as we know it! For all of us who long for our Lord, we praise the Lord as we watch history unfold.
The passage of the health bill was predicted by myself last year! The Bible predicts a coming one world government. The people will looked to the government for their security. When they do this, the Bible predicts that the anti-Christ will come to power who will be promising world security. The first step is to give the government unlimited power over our lives which the health care reform bill does as a first step.
In order to prepare for this, we are going to see the world become more and more controlled by a small elite. I don't think most people realize that America is the last industrialized nation to accept universal health care. The power that was given to the government over the weekend is extreme. The government has now set up a system that will lead to a single payer system where everyones medical histories will be tracked by the federal government. Government figures will eventually have the power over life and death decisions.
The government also now has the right to track you at all times. I think this is significant because they now have the right to force you to have a health care plan and make sure you are on a plan. This alone is a very major development because the anti-Christ at some point in the future will force all Christians to bear an indentification label on their bodies as signified by the number 666. The government having the right to force us to do something in order to qualify as a citizen is very significant from a Biblical perspective.
The states in the past could check on you once a year with the drivers license. The federal government could check up on you once a year by requiring you to file taxes. Health care reform will now require the government to know where you live at all times in order to make sure you have health care!!
For those who know Bible prophecy, this is pretty exciting stuff. For all those who love the Lord, we know that the coming of our Lord is drawing nearer by the day! For those who don't know the reality of God's love, this could be scary; however, for those who know the love of the Lord, this is expected, predicted in Scripture and signifies the end of mankind as we know it! For all of us who long for our Lord, we praise the Lord as we watch history unfold.
People don't live above their selfishness. If they did, there would be no need for a government run health care. You cannot run a country based on what people ought to do, you can only work with what they actually do. If, as you say, it is the responsibility of Christians to run the health services then Christians have failed. Don't deny your fellow Americans health care because your fellow Christians have not lived up to, what you claim is, their responsibility.
You need to work on your history. The Romans and Greeks had hospitals and Universities before Christians were around. You seem determined to get the credit for everything.
I don't think that Catholics play lip service to the bible at all. They are taught that the "old testament" is a mish mash of parables, stories, poetry and the odd bit of history that was left after some of the early popes culled the Torah. They are told that "new testament" is the story of Jesus written by descendants of his disciples and culled to remove the versions not approved by the early church. They are certainly encouraged to believe the rumped new testament. Catholics are not encouraged to read the bible because it is not seen as literal or relevant.
ZDENNY, I think you should save and travel. There is a very interesting and diverse world out there. You might not be so determinedly anti-secular if you had a look.
ZDENNY said:
Denise,
I appreciate your honest response. It shows you are not a Christian nor a person who longs for the return of Christ. You don't believe in love and you don't believe that people can live above their selfishness. These are all the tenants of Atheism.
I have good news for you though. God has given us the power through faith in Christ to share His love with the world!! Christians have been doing this before there were any hospitals or universities. In fact, we built most of the modern world that you see. Chrisians have been doing this without the government's direct assistance for 2000 years.
You stated that Spain, France and Italy are all Christian countries. They really are Catholic countries that only pay lip service to the Bible when it is convient. While I believe that many of them are Christians, I also know that many of them have bought into secularism due to indoctrination and discrimination against Biblical values.
The funny thing is that some Christians think it is Christian to give up their Christian responsibilities to the government. It clearly is not in the Scripture and flows out of a loveless vision of the world. France is now known for its philosophical rejection of Biblical revelation. Evangelicals are discriminated against their strongly and intentionally at this time. I would hardly call it the government that is Bible friendly. If a Christian thinks they can stop caring for the poor, sick and needy in this world and give this to the government, they clearly have rejected Biblical truth for their life.
I appreciate your honest response. It shows you are not a Christian nor a person who longs for the return of Christ. You don't believe in love and you don't believe that people can live above their selfishness. These are all the tenants of Atheism.
I have good news for you though. God has given us the power through faith in Christ to share His love with the world!! Christians have been doing this before there were any hospitals or universities. In fact, we built most of the modern world that you see. Chrisians have been doing this without the government's direct assistance for 2000 years.
You stated that Spain, France and Italy are all Christian countries. They really are Catholic countries that only pay lip service to the Bible when it is convient. While I believe that many of them are Christians, I also know that many of them have bought into secularism due to indoctrination and discrimination against Biblical values.
The funny thing is that some Christians think it is Christian to give up their Christian responsibilities to the government. It clearly is not in the Scripture and flows out of a loveless vision of the world. France is now known for its philosophical rejection of Biblical revelation. Evangelicals are discriminated against their strongly and intentionally at this time. I would hardly call it the government that is Bible friendly. If a Christian thinks they can stop caring for the poor, sick and needy in this world and give this to the government, they clearly have rejected Biblical truth for their life.
Sharing Light and love and raising awareness are the things I concentrate on. Our life here on earth is only a short passing moment. God works in mysterious ways and our hope and trust is our strength. Our willingness to endure and forbear all thing are the cross we (I) must bear. Holding no anger within and uplifting others till the return of Christ doing what we can when we can is all I strive for in my daily walk with Christ. Hard times.... Yes! Demoralized world.... Yes. Faith trust and Hope..= Our Strength... Yes! Have a blessed day! Scott
Your personal, politican and religious opinions are hardly representitive of Christians as a whole.
Spain, France and Italy are all Christian countries. The former Soviet Union was atheist not secular.
I would hate to live in the kind of non-secular, homogeneous society that you so aspire to. It reeks of intolerance. I think you are using God and Love to justify bigotry and greed.
ZDENNY said:
Denise, there is no love in government. Nor can there be. The bigger government gets the more corrupt it becomes. You are arguing for corruption by pushing big government. Christians don't believe that power should be centralized. We believe that God works through the individual and brings people together to serve the interest of their neighbors.
Your vision of society is secularism and secularism just doesn't work. It hasn't work in Russia, it doesn't work in China, and yes, it doesn't work in France or Spain. It never has and never will. The missing ingredient is the love of God who works through the individual.
The Bible does not argue that Christians should depend on the government to provide for their needs. The Bible says that we are to rely on God and His people. A secular government can never meet the needs of the people because it cannot love.
In other words Denise, you are saying the love doesn't work. This is the secular argument. Love is not real nor a reality. Everyone is selfish so you have to have the government force people to part with their money.
Christians just reject your way of thinking and always will. It is unbiblical and denies the power of God that works in the lives of those who love Him.
Denise, there is no love in government. Nor can there be. The bigger government gets the more corrupt it becomes. You are arguing for corruption by pushing big government. Christians don't believe that power should be centralized. We believe that God works through the individual and brings people together to serve the interest of their neighbors.
Your vision of society is secularism and secularism just doesn't work. It hasn't work in Russia, it doesn't work in China, and yes, it doesn't work in France or Spain. It never has and never will. The missing ingredient is the love of God who works through the individual.
The Bible does not argue that Christians should depend on the government to provide for their needs. The Bible says that we are to rely on God and His people. A secular government can never meet the needs of the people because it cannot love.
In other words Denise, you are saying the love doesn't work. This is the secular argument. Love is not real nor a reality. Everyone is selfish so you have to have the government force people to part with their money.
Christians just reject your way of thinking and always will. It is unbiblical and denies the power of God that works in the lives of those who love Him.
I don't think it's appropriate to claim greater understanding of anything on the basis of things that your acquaintances do.
The "golden era" that America has experienced has been at the expense of many other nations who have been pressured or bribed into supplying Americans with cheap goods and oil at the expense of their own people. It's time to take responsibility and stop exploiting other nations.
So you only want governments to do certain things. Join the club. That is why we get a vote. What rights and freedoms do you give up with a health care bill? The only thing you give up is money, and that's the crux of the matter. This is not about religion it's about politics and greed.
I see you blame the current President for all the problems caused by the last. Blame Mr Bush for America's problems, he has been largely responsible for them. You don't seem to blame him for the vast amount spent on military activity in the rest of the world. France and Spain do pay for their own defense. They do not contribute as much to foreign policy defence because they have things to pay for at home. France, Spain, Italy, Sweden and Great Britain all have MUCH better health care than America. The horror stories that come out of the USA are as bad and considerably more numerous than in these countries.
There is nothing intrinsically good about capitalism from either a moral or religious standpoint. It is merely an economic system. It is the way that it is managed that creates good or bad. America clearly does not have a benevolent people, which is why these health care reforms are needed.
ZDENNY said:
Denise,
The real problem is the moral decay of our country. My dentist had a free clinic on Saturday. He was a strong Christian man. My doctor who was also a Christian went to Africa every ten years and served for an entire year free of charge. You just don't know or understand love.
I personally don't believe government should do anything on the social side of things. When you have government take over, people give up their rights and freedoms to another body of people who then force them to act in a certain way. Medicare is going bankrupt. Social Security is going bankrupt. In fact, there isn't a government program that isn't going bankrupt. The biggest liberal in the history of America is now in office and he is projecting a 10 trillion deficit alone.
The French, Spain and Italy do not provide for their own defense. In addition, their hospitals are not close to the quality of care that you get in America. In fact, we always get horror stories coming out of France as well as Great Britain.
The bottom line is that when you give the government your rights and freedoms, you are really entering into tyranny. All secularist support tyranny because they all demand a secular government. Christians don't want a powerful government. We want a benevolent people who sees it their responsibility to take care of their neighbor. That has been the secret of America's success.
The real problem is the moral decay of our country. My dentist had a free clinic on Saturday. He was a strong Christian man. My doctor who was also a Christian went to Africa every ten years and served for an entire year free of charge. You just don't know or understand love.
I personally don't believe government should do anything on the social side of things. When you have government take over, people give up their rights and freedoms to another body of people who then force them to act in a certain way. Medicare is going bankrupt. Social Security is going bankrupt. In fact, there isn't a government program that isn't going bankrupt. The biggest liberal in the history of America is now in office and he is projecting a 10 trillion deficit alone.
The French, Spain and Italy do not provide for their own defense. In addition, their hospitals are not close to the quality of care that you get in America. In fact, we always get horror stories coming out of France as well as Great Britain.
The bottom line is that when you give the government your rights and freedoms, you are really entering into tyranny. All secularist support tyranny because they all demand a secular government. Christians don't want a powerful government. We want a benevolent people who sees it their responsibility to take care of their neighbor. That has been the secret of America's success.
Many Christian countries such as France, Spain and Italy have extremely good health services paid for mainly by their taxes. The majority do this happily. Not everybody has the time to go to foreign countries to help the sick, but simply by paying their taxes they can help people at home. Many countries with good health services also contribute to foreign aid by providing teachers, doctors and nurses to countries in need. Some are Christians and some are not.
The fact that there are so many people in America who need health care but are denyed it demonstrates the inadequacy of Christian love to provide what is necessary. You may have meant well, but you failed and intervention is needed. Try to pay your taxes with love and imagine the good that your money will do for sick people all over America. You may require these services one day.
ZDENNY said:
Denise,
Well said for a person who in my judgement must be an atheist. Atheist always want to pay people to care for someone else rather than do it themselves.
Christians in large numbers go into undeveloped countries and start hospitals and care for the sick and needy. You may be surprised to learn this but it is all done on a voluntary basis by people in the church. The government is never involved in all these missions that Christians have set up all over the world. Christians don't need the government in the same way Atheists do. Christians rely on love and service.
Atheists and secularist rely on force and redistribution because they don't believe in the reality of love and are too selfish to get out there and help others out in a consistent manner. Love is from God and secularists lack this love which is why they think everyone else is selfish.
Securalism always leads to bankruptcy. It has to. You can not pay people to love. Love is from God so pure secularism will always fail! I mean always!!! You can't buy love and that is where all secularist go wrong.
Replies
ZDENNY said:
In order to prepare for this, we are going to see the world become more and more controlled by a small elite. I don't think most people realize that America is the last industrialized nation to accept universal health care. The power that was given to the government over the weekend is extreme. The government has now set up a system that will lead to a single payer system where everyones medical histories will be tracked by the federal government. Government figures will eventually have the power over life and death decisions.
The government also now has the right to track you at all times. I think this is significant because they now have the right to force you to have a health care plan and make sure you are on a plan. This alone is a very major development because the anti-Christ at some point in the future will force all Christians to bear an indentification label on their bodies as signified by the number 666. The government having the right to force us to do something in order to qualify as a citizen is very significant from a Biblical perspective.
The states in the past could check on you once a year with the drivers license. The federal government could check up on you once a year by requiring you to file taxes. Health care reform will now require the government to know where you live at all times in order to make sure you have health care!!
For those who know Bible prophecy, this is pretty exciting stuff. For all those who love the Lord, we know that the coming of our Lord is drawing nearer by the day! For those who don't know the reality of God's love, this could be scary; however, for those who know the love of the Lord, this is expected, predicted in Scripture and signifies the end of mankind as we know it! For all of us who long for our Lord, we praise the Lord as we watch history unfold.
God Bless...
You need to work on your history. The Romans and Greeks had hospitals and Universities before Christians were around. You seem determined to get the credit for everything.
I don't think that Catholics play lip service to the bible at all. They are taught that the "old testament" is a mish mash of parables, stories, poetry and the odd bit of history that was left after some of the early popes culled the Torah. They are told that "new testament" is the story of Jesus written by descendants of his disciples and culled to remove the versions not approved by the early church. They are certainly encouraged to believe the rumped new testament. Catholics are not encouraged to read the bible because it is not seen as literal or relevant.
ZDENNY, I think you should save and travel. There is a very interesting and diverse world out there. You might not be so determinedly anti-secular if you had a look.
ZDENNY said:
I appreciate your honest response. It shows you are not a Christian nor a person who longs for the return of Christ. You don't believe in love and you don't believe that people can live above their selfishness. These are all the tenants of Atheism.
I have good news for you though. God has given us the power through faith in Christ to share His love with the world!! Christians have been doing this before there were any hospitals or universities. In fact, we built most of the modern world that you see. Chrisians have been doing this without the government's direct assistance for 2000 years.
You stated that Spain, France and Italy are all Christian countries. They really are Catholic countries that only pay lip service to the Bible when it is convient. While I believe that many of them are Christians, I also know that many of them have bought into secularism due to indoctrination and discrimination against Biblical values.
The funny thing is that some Christians think it is Christian to give up their Christian responsibilities to the government. It clearly is not in the Scripture and flows out of a loveless vision of the world. France is now known for its philosophical rejection of Biblical revelation. Evangelicals are discriminated against their strongly and intentionally at this time. I would hardly call it the government that is Bible friendly. If a Christian thinks they can stop caring for the poor, sick and needy in this world and give this to the government, they clearly have rejected Biblical truth for their life.
God Bless...
Spain, France and Italy are all Christian countries. The former Soviet Union was atheist not secular.
I would hate to live in the kind of non-secular, homogeneous society that you so aspire to. It reeks of intolerance. I think you are using God and Love to justify bigotry and greed.
ZDENNY said:
Your vision of society is secularism and secularism just doesn't work. It hasn't work in Russia, it doesn't work in China, and yes, it doesn't work in France or Spain. It never has and never will. The missing ingredient is the love of God who works through the individual.
The Bible does not argue that Christians should depend on the government to provide for their needs. The Bible says that we are to rely on God and His people. A secular government can never meet the needs of the people because it cannot love.
In other words Denise, you are saying the love doesn't work. This is the secular argument. Love is not real nor a reality. Everyone is selfish so you have to have the government force people to part with their money.
Christians just reject your way of thinking and always will. It is unbiblical and denies the power of God that works in the lives of those who love Him.
God Bless...
The "golden era" that America has experienced has been at the expense of many other nations who have been pressured or bribed into supplying Americans with cheap goods and oil at the expense of their own people. It's time to take responsibility and stop exploiting other nations.
So you only want governments to do certain things. Join the club. That is why we get a vote. What rights and freedoms do you give up with a health care bill? The only thing you give up is money, and that's the crux of the matter. This is not about religion it's about politics and greed.
I see you blame the current President for all the problems caused by the last. Blame Mr Bush for America's problems, he has been largely responsible for them. You don't seem to blame him for the vast amount spent on military activity in the rest of the world. France and Spain do pay for their own defense. They do not contribute as much to foreign policy defence because they have things to pay for at home. France, Spain, Italy, Sweden and Great Britain all have MUCH better health care than America. The horror stories that come out of the USA are as bad and considerably more numerous than in these countries.
There is nothing intrinsically good about capitalism from either a moral or religious standpoint. It is merely an economic system. It is the way that it is managed that creates good or bad. America clearly does not have a benevolent people, which is why these health care reforms are needed.
ZDENNY said:
The real problem is the moral decay of our country. My dentist had a free clinic on Saturday. He was a strong Christian man. My doctor who was also a Christian went to Africa every ten years and served for an entire year free of charge. You just don't know or understand love.
I personally don't believe government should do anything on the social side of things. When you have government take over, people give up their rights and freedoms to another body of people who then force them to act in a certain way. Medicare is going bankrupt. Social Security is going bankrupt. In fact, there isn't a government program that isn't going bankrupt. The biggest liberal in the history of America is now in office and he is projecting a 10 trillion deficit alone.
The French, Spain and Italy do not provide for their own defense. In addition, their hospitals are not close to the quality of care that you get in America. In fact, we always get horror stories coming out of France as well as Great Britain.
The bottom line is that when you give the government your rights and freedoms, you are really entering into tyranny. All secularist support tyranny because they all demand a secular government. Christians don't want a powerful government. We want a benevolent people who sees it their responsibility to take care of their neighbor. That has been the secret of America's success.
God Bless...
The fact that there are so many people in America who need health care but are denyed it demonstrates the inadequacy of Christian love to provide what is necessary. You may have meant well, but you failed and intervention is needed. Try to pay your taxes with love and imagine the good that your money will do for sick people all over America. You may require these services one day.
ZDENNY said:
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