Why would a loving God allow bad things to happen?
Does God ever cause bad things to happen?
Why would he do that?
Why do people get cance, children get run over, women and girls get raped or other tragedies happen?
Thess things can cause a faith crisis.
Share your thoughts.
Replies
Robert,
Nothing at all wrong with your questions. I think the crisis of faith is completely normal. A dig through Psalms will show that David struggles with why the Godless seem so blessed. Not my favorite book I feel like I am reading my own whinings. I know others find that comforting.
Let me take a bit to pray and think about this before I resond. I don't want to sound crass or uncaring. Meanwhile, you benefit from reading Luminarie's comment under "heathly minds forget" Anyone else have any thoughts on this.
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Permalink Reply by Lisa on December 11, 2009 at 9:44am
Delete Robert,
I think the Lord alows us all to go through a faith crisis at some point. It forces us to decide if we will trustingly follow even when we don't understand (that is faith isn't it). Remember that although God is loving, He is also just.
Some of this may sound like the responses you have already heard. In the end you will have to come to terms with this in your own way. Your understanding may be different than my own. That matters not. What matters is that you keep on muddling through until you come to terms with this thing. Work it out until you find a solution that works for you!
God contradicts Himself when as an omniscient, loving, omnipotent HE alows evil? Does He? Think of a parent or a teacher watching a young person struggle with something. Sometimes a good parent/teacher will simply allow the young person to struggle so that they will learn the lesson for themselves. Could the Lord at times do this with us?
I mentioned earlier that God is Holy. He is totally other, utterly different than us. No wonder it doesn't make sense! Yet He has given us some of HIs qualities. Think of a God who is so kind as to allow one who has accepted Him to go through difficulties. Then they can help someone else who is stuck in the fog. God allows evil, hurt, fear and pain. For some reason He gave Lucifer, the fallen angel we callt he devil, control over earth instead of destroying him. I don't understand why. I simply trust He has a purpose in it. He makes a way for those who have been there and made it to lead others through. No one understands a rape victim like another rape victim. No one understands a grieving parent or teacher like another grieving parent or teacher.
Think of the tragedy of a student killed by a bus in front of a Christian school. Ultimate cruelty in our eyes! Or is it? He told his teacher he had Jesus in his heart. He is in a better place. What if this horrible thing is the catalyst that leads even one other person to salvation? Could this tragedy really be an act of love?
Sometimes earth is compared to the back side of a piece of embroidery. Ever see one? It is a mess! The string has got to knotted and moved from place somehow. That happens on the backside. The front side is beatiful. What if we are looking at the messy backside while God creates a glorious work of art? Of course it's messy on our side!
Think of a God who still made a way for us to be accepted by Him. He allowed evil and free will. Then He allowed His Son to be the ultimate blood based sin sacrifice. This so we could be forever pure in His eyes. The Mosaic Law found in Leviticus required a blood sacrifice to pay for sins. It could be no other way. The Lord allowed His sin free Son to be tortured and die to finish the deal for eternity. This loving God suffered the brunt of evil! Its even deeper than we understand. Jesus isn't just the Son. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all aspects of one almighty powerful God. They are not seperate spirits. When Jesus died it was really a part of God Himself who was tortured, humiliated, hung on a cross, and bore the full brunt of evil. Many teachers believe He was in hell for a time before the resurection. You see, even God has suffered at the hands of evil. This so that you and I might repent of sins, believe, follow, and have eternal life. Salvation is nothing without repentance. Could this be the greatest act of love ever demonstrated..?.. an all powerful being knowing full well that we would stumble all over ourselves trying to get it right, fail, and even blaspheme Him still made a way. Absolutely Incredible! What a loving act of self sacrifice!
This why I worship. God has made a way. Daily He answers my prayers, even sometimes foolish ones so that I will know He is still there. Sometimes He allows me to learn the hard way so I will grow. It ain't fun. This is still why I worship!
Be blessed.
Lisa
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Permalink Reply by Dave Knauss on December 15, 2009 at 7:02pm
I want to give my two-cent comment on the statement: "I don't understand how a just God could allow so much suffering upon good people." For me, that's myopic. I don't think any speck of the blame rests with God at all, but rather TOTALLY on us humans. (The next few paragraphs are understood through a lawyer's view of law and debt.)
Why is God NOT to blame? God originally gave US TOTAL CONTROL over all suffering, pain, and death by giving us PERFECT ETERNAL LIFE, saying we had COMPLETE DOMINION (through Adam and Eve, the federal head of all mankind). WE screwed it up, not GOD. Sin in the Garden gave all control over to satan, and we reaped suffering, pain, and death.
Now look at the situation we created and what did God do about OUR pathetic mess? Our sin was a debt to God so great that only God could pay it, but it was solely owed by humans, not God. So Jesus became "God-in-the-flesh" to pay it in ALL ways it was owed. Here are two: (1) as a man, He lived a perfect, sinless life, fulfilling every iota of the law, and (2) being God, the fountain of life, He died a total death to pay the sin-debt we incurred. With this payment, Jesus totally regained dominion back from satan.
But then note, He handed it once again to mankind (through Peter, the spiritual head--see Matt. 16:16-19). Why? God can never alter His Word--He said from the beginning He gave it to US, and He cannot change. He is immutable!
Are the two dominions alike? No. Two immediate differences I can think of are: (1) The first dominion was over all creation to the utter boundaries of the universe (the first two heavens, because that's how much fell into decay and under the curse), but the second dominion reaches into Heaven itself (the third heaven, see Matt. 16:16-19). Ponder that a while! (2) No matter if we exercise the second dominion or not and no matter how badly we screw it up, like what originally happened in the Garden, satan can NEVER gain it back. Jesus' regaining is THAT PERFECT!
So with that kind of dominion and utter power given to us, if we want a perfect world, it's up to us Christians and we the Church to be TRIUMPHANT to make one. In all this scenario, God has been MORE than fair and just and MORE than loving--no blame whatsoever rests with Him. He gave up His Life totally in all ways to remedy the situation back to abundant and total life.
So what more do you want Him to do--our parts as well? We should do more soul searching of ourselves, rather than BLAMING God.
And let me postulate ahead if I may. Jesus may have to do just that--OUR PARTS as well! With the present condition of the world, it has become obvious that we are inept at exercising the second dominion in total victorious power. Jesus, once again in utter justice, grace, and love, will come to earth for a 1,000 years to show us HOW to DO it.
And what is meant by this sentence I took from a previous reply? "Either He is unable to intervene or He is not loving." There is a wonderful phrase in Psalm 50:21 (KJV), wherein God Himself is speaking about us, that is so appropriate regarding such FINITE thinking: "Thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself:" I hear God laughing at our measly perceptions.
Blessings, Dave
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Permalink Reply by Robert Chambers on December 31, 2009 at 10:22am
Dave,
I run into your line of thinking quit a bit with this question. It seems to me to be a theistic version of the Stockholm syndrome I've witnessed in my work with young girls who've been victims of sexual abuse. They have a strong tendency to protect their abusers and rationalize their actions because the child's sense of self-preservation has been crushed and they are incapable of realizing that they are not the ones responsible for the all those terrible secrets and pains and betrayals.
But they are forced to be responsible because, as you can well imagine, a man who would assault a child like that has no moral code and brainwashes the child into believing they alone are to blame. Because the shame and self-loathing is so great within these children and because society is so quick to ignore such horrors, it remains a buried secret and the abuser normally goes free while the child is left with a lifetime of suffering to overcome. This unethical reversal of responsibility is also the heart of your argument, glaringly so when you point out that "God originally gave US TOTAL CONTROL over all suffering, pain, and death by giving us PERFECT ETERNAL LIFE, saying we had COMPLETE DOMINION..."
This is like saying you can give a loaded firearm to a three-year-old and then blame the child for any carnage that ensues. God CREATED this universe, earth and all the systems that govern life. Not only that, he created the tree of knowledge, the garden, the serpent and all the conditions that led to the fall of man. He DESIGNED a complexity of systems far more dangerous than any handgun and then he has the gall to step back and act shocked when the creatures he created do exactly what he designed them to do? This is the part I don't understand. We are the three-year-olds, he gave us the pistol, and so many christians like yourself defend him for doing it. I'm fine with not understanding why this is the case, but I can't abide an argument like yours that is simply a half-clever way of letting God off the hook for consequences that he is clearly responsible for. That is simply accepting a comfortable delusion because the truth presents difficult ideas.
-Robert
Robert,
I wanted to touch a little more on something you said... "I don't understand how a just God could allow so much suffering upon good people."
I don't understand this either. I think there are some things the Lord allows for His higher purpose that are beyond our understanding. I will share this though.
Several years ago the leadership of the church and church school where I worked had a major falling out halfway through the year. The whole thing resulted in a church split. There were things I understood by watching that were not admitted until much later. The replacement head masters were inexperienced. Frankly. I found them annoying. Shortly after this massive change of leadership, one of young students (six years) was run over by a school bus, apparently the fault of the driver. In my eyes it was the cruel ending of a very active, precious child's life before anyone even fully knew his potential. To this day I dislike following a school bus and watching young children board or leave the bus. The whole mess left me confused, angry, not trusting the remaining leadership, or even God. The church and my job were thoroughly messed up. I was grieving a tragedy. I nearly walked away from the Lord...I didn't only because I knew I would never be back and the Lord had become a large part of my life. I got through this time only by turning to worship and flags. Fortunately, I live near the church. I was able to drop by, shut myself in the sanctuary, put in a CD and worship for as long as I needed. You see I work out problems, repent of my errors, forgive others, pray for myself and others, and even listen to God while I worship. Sometimes I simply stop and rest in the presence of the Lord.
Lisa,
The question of how a just God could allow so much suffering in the world is one I've never heard a good answer to. I ask this question quite a bit because it is so confusing to me and seems to contradict either the idea of a loving God or an omniscient God. Do you follow me there? That is, if God is loving why would he allow the innocent to suffer and die horribly? If God is all-seeing and all-powerful why would he create a world in which such suffering occurs in such abundance? Surely he could've seen the consequences of giving humans free will, and if he knew this and unleashed it anyways, how can we view him as a loving God?
All too often we give God a 'pass' for the sick and immoral conditions of this world he created. We say that evil is simply an absence of God, or that God is testing us or that he has givens us free will so that we may choose on our own to live in his light, or any one of many other half-baked rationalizations that are easy to swallow in the safe Christian suburbs of America. But none of these corny metaphysical excuses really address the core question: How can God stand idly by and allow an infant to be viciously raped and murdered and still expect us to see him as loving? There are only two possible answers. Either he is unable to intervene or he is not loving. Can you think of another option? If so I would love to hear it.
You might assume that I am neck deep in a crisis of faith for even suggesting these thought...and you'd probably be right. My apologies if this is not an appropriate topic, but to me it is a very important one. It's easy to give thanks with happiness and fortune in one's life.
The correct argument is very simple and it flows from the Nature of God. The Bible says that "God is Love"
First, if God forced us to love him, this would be a contradiction. Forced love is really rape and God is certainly not the divine rapist. Since we are made in the image of God, we do have the capacity for love which is part of our design.
Second, God cannot create Himself. God who is uncreated cannot create another uncreated. This is a contradiction. The only thing that God can create are finite things such as what we see. God cannot change since he is both simple and a necessary being. God is love for eternity; however, mankind is not love in the same way that God is love. Mankind can only participate in the love of God. You cannot say "Man is Love" because we are finite contingent beings whose very existence depends on the existence of God. Instead, we have to participate in the life of God to enjoy His love for eternity.
Third, since God cannot force people to love him (love is grounded in freedom) and God cannot create Himself, we live in the Best Possible World where love is truly possible.
God is building a Kingdom through our fallen experience that will be a Kingdom of love and beauty which we will enjoy with Him for eternity. The key is love. The Kingdom of God will be one where the Creator has loved us through His Son. We respond to His love (demonstrated on the cross where he paid for our sins) by being in Christ who has paid the price for our sins.
John writes in 1 John, "In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother."
Since God is love, love has to be shared which resulted in the Creation. The climax of the creation was man who was made in the image of God who could freely love God.
However, since man only has love (meaning we have to participate in the source of love) mans freedom means that the potential exists for rejection of the life of God by rejecting His nature (which is love). Mankind as well as the Creation itself fell into rebellion against God when man performed one act that was an attack on the nature of God. In the garden, man acted out of lust rather than love. Lust and love cannot co-exist in the life of God which is the heart of the rebellion that continues to this day.
God knew that when he created man with the capacity to know love that man would fall because love is choice for man; however, out of the ashes of a fallen world, God also knew that he could redeemed those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ. The blood of Christ would cover their sins for eternity allowing them entry into the life of God for eternity.
The story is truly poetic and romantic one when considered in its full scope. Life does not consist in what one has or accumulates; rather, man's life consists in his ability to love and be loved.
Atheism and naturalism are a direct attack on this explanation for our life which denies the very foundation of relationships and our reason for existence. You can think of it this way, when you leave this world, you take nothing with you except yourself. You are a gift to the Lord because you have placed your faith in His Son Jesus Christ. You will know the love of God for eternity because you will be able to participate in the nature of God (who is love) for eternity.
As Paul wrote in Romans, "Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will."
God Bless...