I have been ponders what qualities make up a good church. I am refering here to the congregation one joins with on Sunday morning.
What qualities do you look for?
Is it the character of the leadership? How they handle their authority?
The prescence or abscence of bible based preaching? New Testament only...or both Testaments.
The freindliness of the people and how they treat each other and the pastors?
The denomination or maybe even lack of denomination...oversight by a board or elders? Who do the Pastors anwer too, if anyone?
The style/length of the song service if there is one?
Baptism of Holy Spirit and other languages...views on the gifts of the spirit... prophetc words.
( I know this last one could be touchy. I am not trying to start a doctrinal debate...so please refrain and put those comments in a different discussion if you feel you must go there.)
Which of these qualities do you find important in a church? Why?
Different sides have different views.
Leadership folks often see a good church as one that has a lot of people and a good amount of income, with other folks wanting to copy what they do. They have large buildings and plenty of them. They have the latest in technology and music and multiple services. New people will come every week.
"Lay leaders" often see one where they can fit into the system and be a part of this organization, using their talents and gifts for good.
Folks with enough money for it to make a difference see a good church as one with great accounting skills and that Most Holy Writ, the Tax Receipt.
People with technical ability or musical skills see a good church as a place where they can use their talents, but not too much or they will feel taken advantage of over time....unless they, too, get paid.
People with kids will differ, but for the most part, will see a good church as one that takes care of their kids for them in a manner consistent with their preference: some for small, intimate settings for their kids, and others will prefer large, noisy, entertainment type of care.
Finding a good church will obviously depend on what it is you look for. It will depend on what you need and desire. It will depend on what you offer, or are willing to offer.
What makes a good church?
Let me answer with the words of a first-time guest when she filled out her first-time guest survey:
"AH HAAAA, I finally found a church that puts people over itself!!!"
Think about her statement awhile and you'll surely end up at the Great Commandment.
But that doesn't necessarily answer the particulars of HOW to do the GC.
So let me ask this in particular: What does attending your church LOOK and FEEL like to a visitor (guest)? Can you "see" through your visitors' (guests') eyes? To you, are they simply visitors, or are they honored guests?
Blessings, Dr. Dave
Selfish sinful human beings do everything out out of selfish ambition and vain conceit. Even things that we would consider to be noble people do out of selfish ambition and vain conceit. To be interested in the interests of someone else(unless you were to get something out of it) runs contrary to what the world is all about. This is why the Ekklesia is the called out ones of God. Even when the Church isn't doing that good of a job of reflecting Jesus Christ, its very mission gets people to think that God has a higher standard that we could never attain on our own.
Rev. Ernie Jelliff said:
Lisa, Your welcome even tho I did not see that you did any thing that was wrong per say.it was just not very Christian like,it was very human.
LOL, I bet your more right then you know on atheist needing to leave that " atheist mind set" out of our brain from time to time. I do it not only at church but also with relatives. I only go to church when visiting with relatives,going to funerals or weddings. When visiting relatives I will even give grace at dinner when asked if I would like to do it. I'll make one up in advance so I will be ready when asked.
On talking about plate tectonics, vaccinations and evolution here. Your right,OOPS MY BAD. I will try to watch that.
Thanks for accepting my apology. Sometimes humans need to be slapped/startled awake but I usually reserve that for off forum relations. I also figured that a commited atheist might need to be in an out of it mental state to spend much time in a church. On the other hand someone like myself would have to be a bit out of it to spend much time at coven meetings.
Unfortunately, you are right that most people do not understand science well enough to hold so tightly to their arguments. Maybe some atheists fit the description. I find you understand more than most.
The vacination story is indeed sad. I think that folks who believe vaccines are unsafe because of included chemicals would be smarter to push for a redesign of the vaccine that uses safer components.
Why are we talking about plate tectonics, vaccinations and evolution here? These belong over in unmoderated land?
Have a great week Sir.
No worries, I am guilt of the same thing. We are only human.I was not offended. I figured you would not care to much for your wording when you came back later and read them. I have found in my years of doing this that these forums can bring out the worse in people. It makes sense, we are both passionate in our feeling in these matters. It seems that no one is listening so people think that if they use stronger words they can slap the other side awake and make them see the light,(so to speak).
Science does not have all the answers maybe we never will. No dough the theory of evolution will change. Thats the way science is designed to work. Still the earth is very old. Matterhorn mountain proves this without any of the so called problems of age dating using "radiometric dating ".
The strongest thing going for evolution is that the deeper one digs the simpler life forms get.Thats going to be a hard one to get past for the creation group.
I wonder why the theory of plate tectonics is not being attacked by the religious right. It would be funny if not so serious. 78 percent of Americans adult support the theory of Plate tectonics but nearly half believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old.
I guess what I am saying is the the general public don't know enough about evolution to say it is wrong.
Now take child vaccination,the vaccination rates are down and childhood illnesses that were all but wiped out by vaccinations are making big comebacks.
This lady almost lost her baby because neighbor did not believe in vaccination of her children. Breaks my heart to watch this.
I am watching Fred Price. His sermon today is so awesome. It is, "Thoughts, Ideas and Suggestions." It could aptly be subtitled, "We wrestle not against flesh and blood, The Battle of the Mind and When we are tested, it is usually by being tempted."
One of his statements was, "The Lord is not trying to control our thoughts or He would have made us autonomic. He's warning us of the pitfalls that will steal our joy, kill our purpose and destroy our future."
The Scripture verses he used are, Romans 10:17, Ephesians 6:11-18, 2 Cor 10:5, Phillipians 4:5-8 and 1 Cor 2:14.
My idea of the Ideal Church is one that feeds my spirit and helps me to grow so that I bring Glory to His Name and Not have run around the mountain so much. For me, the rest is icing on the cake.
I like Fred Price and I know he is one of those that cause a lot of debate, but he feeds my soul and I leave the rest to the Lord.
I hadn't posted here and I wasn't sure what to post that would be a positive addition.
Have a great day!
Pastor Jelliff thanks. I am wondering if the worship style at your church is contemporary. Thinking about hopping some hills, over the rivers and through some woods... someday.
James, I have a tendency to come across a more negative than I should. The Lord is still working on me. Thanks for your answer! I think you make more sense than you realize when you describe an ideal church or even good ways to do spiritual teaching. You are so right that there misled Christians or those with poor understanding who do apparently foolish things. On some of your points some would argue that their a problems with the existing science and things believed may not be as true as we think. Others may be basing their actions on bad or poorly designed studies that were somehow grabbed by the mainstream.
The only reason I brought it up was because I thought it neat. IMO there is no right way or wrong way to be religious.Minus forcing it on others or killing them for not believing it your way. Weather it be in a mega church or a mother reading the Bible or any other holy book to her kids to a primitive people living in a jungle, faith in God/Gods helps people cope with life.Thats a good thing.
Mega churches learned to make church services entertaining.What better way then to use high tech toys? I do find it amusing that many will use the latest technology while telling the masses not to believe a large part of science. Evolution, globe warming,age of the earth and vaccination in children.
Its mind boggling to think about. Many want all abortions made illegal but won't cover very sick babies with medical insurance.In many states it is still legal to faith heal your children to death.Protect the unborn but after that ----- them. I don't get it.
IMO kind of a dark way of asking,Okay fair enough. My ideal church would be a meeting place where,science was left to scientist and politics were left to politicians. A church should teach people to love thy neighbor. A place to help people that are hurting but also a place to share the good things in life. I don't think a church with 10,000 members can do either. A church should be like a big family, where everyone knows everyone else where all can feel as they belong.